NAVIGATION CONFERENCE.

Gisborne Times, Volume XXV, Issue 2078, 13 May 1907, Page 1

NAVIGATION CONFERENCE.

The •following telegram from Wellington, signed A. J. Hislop, London, lias been received at this office:—.

LONDON', March 'JO. The Colonial Merchant Shipping Conference, which has been convened for the purpose of arriving at a uniformity of sloping laws between Great Britain and the colonies, commenced its deliberations to-day at the Colonial Office,: the delegation having the honor of sitting in the room where Lord Salisbury held bis Cabinet meetings. The President of the Board of Trade, Mr. Lloyd George, AI.P., was in the chair, and the following gentlemen were present:—lmperial delegates, Board of Trade, Mr. TL Llewellyn Smith, O.IL, Mr. Walter J. Howell, C. 8., Mr. It. E. Curliffo, and Captain A. J. G. Chalmers; Colonial Office, Mr. H. Bertram Cox, C. 8., and Mr. A. B. Keith; Shipowners, Messrs. K. Anderson, 1L F. Ferine, and Norman Hill; Seamen, Air. Havelock Wilson, ALP., and Air. 1).

J. Kerry; Australian delegates, Hon. Sir W. J. Lyne, Dr. H. N. AVavelaston, Hon. H. At. Hughes, and Hon. Dugald Thomson ; New Zealand delegates, Hon. Sir Joseph Ward, K.C. At. G.. Air. James Mills, Air. William Belcher, Air. A. It. Hislop, and Dr. Fitchett. Solicitor-General; Secretaries, Air. J. A. AVebstcr and Air. G. E. Baker, of the Board of Trade; Air. J. A Hislop, private secretary to Sir J. G. W ard ; and Air. D. Quinn, private secretary to Sir W. Lyne

OBJECTS OF THE CONFERENCE The President expressed pleasure at meeting the colonial delegates, and oil behalf of the Imperial Government welcomed them to the Conference. It was a great delight to them to meet these delegates at the First series of conferences to he held between Great Britain c and her colonies. Although questions of moment, farreaching in their character would be dealt with at the larger Conference to Uo shortly held, still it was certain there were none of greater practical importance than those that would be submitted at the Conference within the next few days. The British Empire owned half the morchant fleet of the world, and in spite of her years she was carrying it in increasing rapidity and readiness. A good many questions had arisen regarding the working of the N.Z. Shipping and Seamens Act of 1904, and there were also questions for adjustment in the proposed Australian Navigation and Shipping Bill. The provisions of these measures had caused'Abme misapprehension lest they should impose on British ships in colonial waters, Restrictions which might be inconsistent' with those imposed by Imperial legislation. If the regulations varied from colony to colony, shipowners naturally felt that they might become so burdensome as to be' almost impossible to bear. Colonial shipping was in its infancy, but there was no doubt it would in the future claim its share in the international shipping of the world, and so it was as much to the interests of the colonies as to Great Britain herself to have uniformity of laws. The British legislation of last year would, ho thought, considerably ease matters. He suggested that with a view to expediting business the Conference should so far as possible confine itself to questions of principle, so as to arrive at an understanding which should form the basis of a practical solution of the questions at issue. In responding, Sir .Joseph Ward, oil behalf of the colony lie had the honor to represent, returned cordial thanks to the representative of the British Government, Mr. Lloyd George, for the warm reception accorded to the New Zealand delegates and himself, and at the same time assured him that the sentiments given expression to were appreciated by the representatives. The colonies looked upon the Mother Country, and rightly so, as the model to follow, but it would be recognised that in the sprightly youth of the colonies wo have an active population who take a very keen interest in all matters appertaining to the welfare of the country and the Empire. In the march of progressive legislation they wore therefore able to move with more activity than the Mother Country, with her heavy machinery and' population, could be expected to do. In addition they were in a position in these young countries- of avoiding the mistakes in legislation which an older country had mado in earlier days, and thus escaped many pitfalls. He would like to say that the importance of the interests involved by the British shipping world in their trade with the colonies was fully appreciated by New Zealand, and a.s a colonial delegate he recognised how necessary it was to the Old Land that there should be no blocking of the great industry of colonial shipping, and of the British ship in the trading world by unworkable restrictions. In respect to the New Zealand Shipping and Seamens Bill, which was recognised to be the most advanced in the world, speaking for that colony, he was anxious that no retrograde stops should bo taken so far a.s that Act was concerned. It had been prepared and passed after due and careful considertiou, and the people of the colony believed its provisions to be in the best interests of New Zealand, the men who manned our ships, and the owners themselves. He felt sure, however, that, although that in conjunction with the Australian Bill now under consideration, the regulations under the New Zealand Act would be carefully criticised, there would be no serious desire on the part of any representative to attempt to force any retrogressive legislation. He heartily endorsed the opinion expressed by the President that details should be avoided and principles only bo dealt with. If they adopted this course they would soon arrive at a basis of agreement. New Zealand claimed a share in the internal working of the Empire’s shipping laws, and she was also proud to own one of the finest shipping organisations in I be world, and lie was very glad (o he associated with the Chairman and Director, Mr. Mills, 11 map of very wide experience, who would be able at this Conference to give them the benefit of liis long experience and mature consideration upon jioints which might be regarded as inimical to owners of tliet portion of the international shipping of the world which is owned and controlled in New Zea.land. Mr. Belcher had wide experience connected with spainpn, apd his advice would be valuable. He fully recognised tlio stupendous difficulty

in (ho way of having general logishition upon .shipping interests, probably ■ agreed," and passed in Great'Britain, , made applicable to all parts of the world, but so long as the colonies had a right of exercising that freedom which the .British Government has ' always conceded to them of passing legislation suitable for their requirements, it would he freely admitted the principle could be made into a 'stiong one, and as a practical result of the Conferenc'd; he 'felt sure that good would ensue to the British shipowner, as well as to the colonial shipowner., and to those who manned Unships. In speaking of the coasting trade, Sir Joseph said he recognised the difficulty that confronted British shipowners in sending their vessels to the Southern seas, through having to meet the demands of the colonies in respect to coasting regulations; but they were fully cognisant of their country’s requirements, and he was disposed to think the British shipowner would concede the right ol these countries to have a distinction in the shipping laws made in their application to coastal work, which called for the support and maintenance of the legitimate Australasian vessels, where payment of officers and crew was higher than oil British ships. In his judgment it was not possible to have a flexible law covering all portions outside of New Zealand. To the representatives of the shipping world present he would like to say one word regarding a matter about which there was a very strong feeding in New Zealand. To put it mildly, the British shipowner frequently incurs the serious displeasure of the mercantile world in New Zealand by having in operation a bill of lading which from a shipper's point of view, or an exporter’s point- of view, is worse than useless except to the shipper himself. In other words it' was a hill of lading which provided for the supreme and adequate protection of the British shipowner, and it ignored, in its judgment of the mercantile marine in your country, the most ordinary consideration for a shipper from New Zealand or from Australia ; and in that respect, the ! British shipowner was brought into conflict with a large section of the community who wanted to see preference given to British ships and British crews. They were all proud to know that half of the mercantile licet of the world was owned by British shipowners. The colonies wanted to develop and share in these large interests in every possible way, and i' was desired at the same time, through the influence of the Board of Trade, to impress upon the British shipowner that it is a mistake for ' him to protect himself so entirely as he does; and lie should be prepared to ' allow people who are paying freight 1 age both to and fro, to be more reasonably protected in the bill of lad- : ing. In conclusion he sincerely hoped that the delegates who represented the Board of Trade and the shipown- 1 ers might be able to see their way to take the New Zealand Act as passed as a basis of effecting improvement's ’< in the interest of the British officer an dtlie British seamen. . 1 Sir ‘William Lync, who followed. 1 thanked the Imperial Government ,on < behalf of the Commonwealth, for extending to Australia the opportunity i of being present to ileal with the important matters at issue. He expressed his appreciation of the kind remarks that had been made by the President. He fully recognised the : difficulties which were felt in the necessity, so far as the Imperial Government was concerned, of considering' the defects in the matter of shipping laws beyond those wlicih applied to any one particular colony.

CERTIFICATE OF SURVEY. After a decision had been arrived at regarding tlio method of proccd.lire of the various meetings to be held, the subject of survey of vessels trading to the colonies was dealt with.

Mr. Llewellyn Smith asked whether the Board of Trade certificates which apply to passenger vessels could he accepted in lieu of any requirements as to survey in Australasia. Mr. Norman Hill explained tiie difficulties under which shipowners labored in respect to survey certificates being required when in the colonies. Sir Joseph Ward pointed out that under Clause ISo of the New Zealand Act a certificate which had been granted to any steamship company by the Imperial Board of Trade, and was still in force, was accepted in New Zealand, and the ships need not be again surveyed under this Act. Mr. Hill admitted this was so, but asked whether New Zealand' could not go further and make this applicable to a regular trader. After further discussion. Sir Joseph Ward gave notice of the following resolution : “That it should he a suggestion to the Board of Trade that they should provide lor the issue of

a survey certificate in the ease of non-passenger vessels.” This was to come up for consideration on the next sitting day. Mr. Norman Hill gave notice of the following resolution: “That the standards as to bull, machinery, boilers, and life-saving appliianees established by the Board of Trade and testified by current certificates should he accepted for British ships throughout the Empire.” On Sir Joseph Ward’s motion it was agreed that the following subjects should be discussed at the next meeting in reference to oversea vessels: Survey certificates, food, accommodation, ventilation, and conveniences and manning. The Conference then adjourned until after Easter.

After the completion of it’s days business I had a conversation with a conversation with a prominent official of the Conference who informed me that great pleasure was felt at t'lie masterly manner in which file discussion on the various matters referred to that afternoon had been dealt with by your representative. Their questions and addresses were very concise, aud of considerable assistance in helping to elucidate the various knotty problems brought lip, They have created a most favorable impression, and it is felt that under tile able guidance of Sir Joseph Ward, New Zealand lias reason to be proud of the representatives she has scat to watch her interests in this important Conference.

LONDON, April 4

The conference resumed its sittings in the Colonial Office to-day, Mr. Lloyd George being in the chair. The New Zealand representatives, the Hon, Sir J. G. Ward and Messrs

Alills, Belcher, and Ilislop wore present.

Prior to Sir Joseph Ward moving

his resolution, viz., “That it shoillc he a suggestion to the Board o. Trade that they should provide foi

the issue of a survey certificate in tlie case of noil-passenger vessels,” it was decided that Air. Hill’s motion, “that standards as to hull, machinery,' boilers, and lile-saving appliances established by the Board of Trade and testified by current certificates should he accepted for British ships throughout the Empire,” should, with the concurrence of-the mover and the approval of Sir Joseph, form a part of the latter’s resolution.

In speaking to tlie motion, Sir Joseph said a great deal of trouble had arisen between the colonial go-

vonunouts and shipowners over the surveying of vessels trading with the colonies, and he felt assured that if his motion was agreed to it

would greatly minimise, if not entirely remove, the disabilities 'under which shipowners labored in respect to frequent surveys of their vessels.

if a shipowner accepted Lloyd’s certificate and failed to take advantage of the certificate jiroposed to he issued by the British Board of Trade!, the onus of his being called upoh to comply with the regulations of the colonial Boards of Trade or Marine Departments, whichever was the administrative head, by having his vessel frequently examined, would he thrown upon him. He said he understood that difficulties which presented themselves to shipowners noth of passenger and cargo vessels would bo obviated by • the colonies accepting the British Board of Trade

certificates; and speaking for the New ’Zealand Board of Trade ho felt confident in saying that they would accept such certificates in respect to first and second class steamers, reserving, of eoursy, the right to have an examination of.ships under local

authorities should it he found necessary. In regard to the second resolution, Sir Joseph said if the Board of Trade would provide for an increase in the number of life-saving appliances on steamers which would be necessary on many vessels now trading to the colonies, he would he prepared to recommend the acceptance of the certificate of the British Board of Trade, having in view conditions existing in the New Zealand Act in respect to the appliances for the preservation and safety of life on steamers within and around her shores. Sir "Win. Lyno had no objection to offer to the proposal provided the colonial Governments, had power reserved to them to make re-survey-ings if deemed desirable. He was also strongly of opinion that vessels from Great Britain trading with (Australia should conform to tlio same regulations governing their coastal steamers.

Mr. Hughes considered Sir J. G. Ward’s motion a good one, and suggested that it should be adopted at once.

Mr. Thomson also supported the motion. He expressed the opinion that if we expect Americans to recognise our law we should recognise Great Britain’s regulations. Mr. Norman Hall (shipowners’ representative) disagreed with the necessity for Government inspection. The policy of this country during the

past fifty years had been very successful, the basis of which was a system of freedom upon which the .finest mercantile fleet in the world had been built,

In Mr. Belcher’s opinion the crux of the whole position lay in the fact that as far as the intercolonial trade was concerned Australia and New (New Zealand had local regulations to meet it, hut if British shipowners sent their vessels out without first obtaining a British Board of Trade certificate they would have to take the consequences upon these vessels arriving in either Australian or New Zealand waters.

Air. Ferine said the sailing ship trade in Australia was still considerable, and they did not wish such vessels surveyed every voyage, Tlio Chairman said that as Canada was not represented, and the resolution had reference to the Empire, it was desirable to make it applicable to Australia and New Zealjand. This was agreed to after further discussion. Sir Joseph suggested that to meet Sir W. Lync’s wishes the following words he added to tlio resolution, “Board of Trade certificates, to be accepted in Australia and New Zealand as of the same effect as the local certificates.” The motion as amended was duly agreed to,

PROVISION SCALE, Tlie Ghairigun suggested that the Imperial scale of 1906 be recognised in Australian and New Zealand waters in British ships not registered in those colonics. This was agreed to, INSPECTION OF PROVISIONS.

Air. Hill moved the following: “That provisions on British ships which have already been inspected and jiassed by Imperial officers be exempt from further inspection in Australia and New Zealand except upon complaint, and unlesso the authorities have reason to believe that such inspection is necessary.” In advancing reasons for this he said it was felt by the shipowners that provisions on these British ships haring been passed in accordance with tlie Imperial standard there should he no necessity for an examination in Australia and New Zealand, and it was considered a hardship that a further examination should he so shortly made again. (The motion was agreed to.

AGGOAi AIODATION. 1 Regarding the provision ill the CoinmoiiweiiltU Shipping Bill making the minimum air space for the crew 120 ft instead of 72ft as formerly, objection was raised by the shipping representatives. Subsequently tliefollowing motion was proposed by Sir Joseph Ward: “That the conditions imposed by the Australian or New Zealand law as regards accommodation, ventilation, and conveniences should apply to vessels registered in those colonies or engaged in their coastal trade.” Considerable discussion ensued as to the minimum and maximum accommodation for crews.

The Australian delegates urged that the minimum proposed in their Bill be made retrospective, and that the question of expenses should not be considered.

Sir Joseph Ward objected to retrospective legislation being imposed, and subsequently suggested by way of compromise that where alterations could not reasonably be made, an arrangement might be come to with the Alinister, He objected to tfm right of appeal to the Supreme Courts where a disagreement arose. Air. Hughes urged a compromise, as lie considered if would not be fair to impose certain conditions upon Australian shipowners which British shipowners were not compelled to observe.

Further consideration was adjourned,

MANNING.

Sir Joseph Ward moved the following:—“That the conditions imposed by an Australian or New Zealand law as regards manning should only apply to vessels registered in those colonies or engaged in their coasting trade.” This was agreed to provisionally until the term “coasting' trade” is defined. The question of what the term “coastwise trade” implies was left an open one. Sir Joseph brought down a motion defining what coasting trade was, and this concluded tlio business of tlio day.

LONDON, April 5. The third meeting of the. confer once was held to-day.

Upon resuming Sir W. Lync guv

notice of the following motions: (I) That no seaman should he permitted to engage as an A.B. onj board any British ship who cannot show that ho is justly entitled to that rating, the period of sea service to lie three years; (2) that no person should he employed as an officer on hoard any British ship who is not (a) a British subject and (b) thoroughly conversant with tlio British language; (13) that every possible encouragement should bo given by legislation and otherwise to the employment of British seamen in preference to foreigners; (4) that the law of any British possession which operates in regard to vessels registered or usually trading in that possession shall alsb operate in regard to all vessels coming into a final port of destination in that possession or clearing outward from any port there.

ACCOMMODATION. The resolution standing in Sir Joseph Ward’s name with regard to accommodation, etc., was then brought up for further consideration in lion of tlio one subljiiitted yesterday. Sir Joseph introduced another resolution dealing with this matter, as follows: “That the Governments, of Australia and New Zealand, instead of imposing new conditions involving structural alterations as regards cubic and superfi'eial space accommodation devoted to officers and crow on v.e.ssol.s built prior to the enactment of such conditions, should require only such existing vessels as have accommodation which in the opinion of the local authorities is in fact insanitary or unliealth- . ful, to amend tlie same so as to bring it into a sanitary and hea-lfthful condition to the satisfaction of the local authorities.” This was passed provisionally until tlie term “coasting trade” was discussed. Sir W. Lyne’s motions Nos. 1 and 2 were discussed.

Sir Joseph Ward supported these, and pointed out that 2 and 3 were the law in New Zealand already. Nos. 1 and 2 were finally agreed to, and the conference rose until AIOII- - next.