PARLIAMENT.

Gisborne Times, Volume XXVI, Issue 2309, 30 September 1908, Page 3

PARLIAMENT.

MONDAY NIGHT’S SITTING

[Press Association.]

WELLINGTON, Sept. 29. After midnight on Monday Mr. J 5. W. Alison said that more expenditure was called for in the North than in the South, yet move money was still provided for tho South Island than for the North. Mr. O. M. Gray combatted this, ami urged that the Southern Trunk luio should get a heavier vote next year.

Mr. T. Mfi'clconzie advocated tho prosecution of the small branch lines that would be heavy revenue producers.

Mr. Mncphorson advocated at some length the claims of Lawronoo, Roxburgh and Otago Central railways. Mr. A. T. Ngata congratulated Mr. I'arata on tho enormous vote allocated to the Southern Maori District, and protested against the small amountfor the survey of native lands, which was as important a matter of policy as any Government had had to consider. He - hoped that £30,000 or £40,000 would he placed on the Supplementary Estimates.

Mr. Hone Iloke spc/ke in support at length. Hon. Jas. Carroll, in reply, said the Government had decided to make provision for a sum up to £30,000, under the Loans to Local Bodies Act, for the survey of certain blocks, which would be provided for on tho Supplementary Estimates. Ho said the Government was fully alive to the necessity of developing native lands by means of surveys, roads, and the railway line from Gisborne to Rotorua.

Hon. Jas. McGowan said there was another side to this question. When a European wished to lease the lands he had to road them, and it was only right that the native lands should hoar some of the loan for loading, hut when it was sought to obtain metal for reading purposes from the natives, they always demanded a very stiff royalty, and so appeared to bo well able to look after themselves. He concluded by saying that tho North had been fairly treated in the matter of votes. The House then went into Committoe of Supply. At clause 27, Public Works departmental total vote. £23.800, Hon. W. Hnll-Jones said lie would ask the House to pass this first item, and then report progress. Mr. W. F. Massey said he thought they should follow tho usual custom and report progress from committee on the first item of the vote. It was unfair to ask them to discuss the whole, class at that hour, especially as on the first class a general discussion on the whole administration of the Department could he taken. Hon. Yv r . Hall-Jones said the course he suggested was a usual one. I Mr. W. Herries thought it very unreasonable to ask members to take a general debate on administration at that hour. He moved to report progress. The motion was lost by 17 votes to 19 votes.

The Prime Minister pointed out that it had been usual, in the past, to pass the first class without discussion awcl to report progress. Mr. AY. F. Massey" said the Government had insisted on going on. butthere was not a quorum in the House, and the Opposition might simply walk out, but it had determined not to do so. It- would go on with tile debate on the class before- them. -V general discussion was then conducted by Mr. J. Allen and Kon. Mr. Guinness on water-power. Tho vote passed unaltered, and the House rose at 2.40 a.m.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

AFTERNOON SITTING

The Council met at 2.30 p.m, Tho committee to which the Pawnbrokers’ Charges Bill was referred reported that- thev were of opinion, after taking evidence, that the Bill should not be proceeded with. The Statutes Revision Committee reported that there was not time to proceed with the Judiciary Bill this session. , The Inspection of Machinery BUI was taken in committee. An amendment was made to clause 11, to provide that where two or more si emu engines are working side by st.i., and are driving a mutual sliatt, bv means of belting or gearing, the class of engine driver required must be determined with reference to tho combined circular inch area of tho cylinders. . , . ' The Bill was reported with amendments, read a third time, and passed. The Harbor Amendment Bill was re-committed for consideration of clauses 5 and 6. A clause providing for the granting of occupation leases of foreshores was struck out. Clause 6 which provides that reclamations by local authorities may be, in certain cases, authorised by the Governor-in-Council was also struck out. Tim Bill was reported with amendments, read a third time, and passed. The Public Bodies Leases Bill was taken in committee. , Progress was reported, and the Council adjourned at 5 p.m . EVENING FITTING.

The Council resumed at 8 p.m. The Attorney-General, in moving tho second reading of the Arbitration Amendment Bill, said that the definition of a strike or lock-out, as set forth in the Bill, was unsatisfactory, and it was for the' Council to clearly define these points. It .would also be necessary to fully consider the Conciliation Council clauses. He intended to have the Bill referred to the Labor Bills Committee after passing the second reading. Hon J. T. Paul, in seconding the motion, said the only alternative to arbitration was a strike, and it was not possible to .'make out a case in support of strikes. Hon. R. A. Lougknan approved of tll Hon' ll J. R. Sinclair commended the constitution of Conciliation Councils, and deprecated strikes as being a menace to.the community. Ho iegretted that all reference to the exertion wave had been excised from the Bill, as he believed in encouraging exertion. - t Rio-c* On the motion of. Hon. J. ftigg, the Council will consider the House s disagreement with tho Second Ballot Bill amendments to-morrow. The Council rose at- 11.10 p.m.

house of representatives

AFTERNOON SITTING

The House met at 2.30 p.m. 'flic Premier moved that the House disagrees with the amendments made to the Second Ballot Bill by,tho Council and appoint a committee ot Hon. W.’ J. Steward, Mr. T. Y. Lethbridge, and the mover to draw up reasons foi O °Mi' Sd AV W F° Massey regretted that the Prime Minister bad not given ms reasons for moving tho motion. He hoped the Bill would be dropped, hut apparently that would not bo the case. & now realised, better than ever, that the electors were entirely opposed to the measure, and they should have had an opportunity to express their opinions on the question He moved tliat the- debate be « iourned for twelvo months. The Bill Idbc dropped, but instead it was tn be placed, in all its lndeousness o?i Hie Statute Bo 9 k. It reminded ?’• ' - f +v,a old saving, “Whom the ft wish to destroy they first make go ' f , The effect of the principle or mad i n f principle of tlic Bill would lead to all kinds of political cng.nloaq. to Massey went on to Eft.S3UAi.. .j ftftft: and either Mr. Asquith, Sir AViltrid Laurier, nor Mr. Deakm would dream of gagging the press. Eternal vagilapce* was the price of. liberty. J Sir Joseph AVarcDsaid lie-had adopt-, ed the usual constitutional course, and Mr. Massey had adopted an unusual one. If Mr. Masseys motion was agreed to. the .House would bo stultifying itself. His (the Premier s)

object in bringing it down was to ensure the majority rule, and in spite of the clamor raised over tho Bill, ho bad received .assurances from all over the Dominion that people approved of tho measure. As for tho “gag” clause the grossest misrepresentation had appeared in the press. Tho clause was intended to help the poor man, ; and lie was not afraid of the press ; nor daunted by any concerted action on its part. Tho Opposition was nga- : inst tho Bill because they thought -it would be against their party interests. Mr. T. M. Wilford was strongly opposed to tho Bill, and utterly so to the “gag” clause. In the first place it would not bo effective, but if it wore it would strike at one of the most effective safeguards of tho public and of members of Parliament themselves. . Ho made a powerful appeal to maintain that, liberty, which had boon hardly fought for in days long ago. Mv. W. Fraser strongly protested against the Bill, which, ho said, did not meet- with tho approval of tho country districts. Mr. F. M. B. Fisher said that a certain number of members did notfavor the Bill. Referring to the “gag” clause, lie said tho talk about “gag” was all humbug. Ho proceeded to make a violent onslaught on tho newspaper press of blip Dominion, which ho called “guttersnipe” press, declaring ho would have to spend hulf-an-honr to enumerato all the names by which it should bo designated. It was a piece of machinery set uj) to protect- vested interests, and picked men it was opposed to, misleading, misrepresenting, and lying about- them. Mr. A. AV. Hogg did not think the majority .of the press were “guttersnipe.” Tie supported tho principle of the Bill.

Mr. C. IT. Poole expressed tho opinion that there may undoubtedly bo “guttersnipe” press in tho Dominion, though many papers had done good work.

Mr. AV. F. Massey’s amendmentwas lost by 48 to 18. On tho original motion being put, Mr. F. E. Baume supported the principle of the Bill, but thought the clause allowing the publication of statements of fact during the intervals between the ballots could bo so manipulated as to undo the whole principle of the Bill.

EVENING SITTING

The House resumed at 7.30 p.m. Mr. J. Allen said it was common report- in the lobbies that tho vote taken in tho afternoon was a result of an intimation given to supporters that the division was to bo treated as a want-of-confidonco vote.

Sir Joseph Ward gavo this an emphatic denial, and Mr. Allen retorted that the Minister might give a denial but nevertheless it was true. Mr. A. R. Barclay said the second ballot had been a failure elsewhere, chiefly because of the tremendous influence brought to bear between tlie first and second ballots.

Mr W. Tanner, while opposed to the Bill, root and branch, saw nothing to be gained at this stage by further opposition. Hon-. Jas. McGowan saicl the Opposition was against tho Bill because itwas dangerous. (Hear, hear.) Dangerous, be meant, to the Opposition. Newspapers were prosecuted for contempt of court if they commented upon cases sub judice, and he failed to see why clause 19 should be called the “gag,” because it proposed to establish the same principle in elections. ... „ Mr. W. Herries said the Government was afraid its own vote would bo split. The late Mr. Seddon would never have dreamed of bringing such a Bill down, and the whole measure was one of the most extraordinary ever brought before Parliament. After further discussion, tho motion was agreed to on tho voices. The House went into committee on the Local Bodies Loans Amendment Bill. ’ , At clause 19, providing that the Public Trustee is to bo the solo commissioner of the sinking fund, some discussion took place as to the meaning of the clause and the extent of its operation. Mr. C. H. Izard said that under tho clause it- was compulsory upon local bodies to make the Public Trustee the sinking fund commissioner whether the Government guarantee was behind the loan or not. Sir Joseph Ward said that would be the case in regard to all future loans. Mr. W. F. Massey said that was very unfair. . It meant that local public bodies must invest their sinking funds in Government debentures, whether the loans were guaranteed or not. He saw no objection to such a stipulation -where the Government guaranteed the loan, but in other cases local bodies would strongly obiect to such compulsion. After some, further discussion, Sir Joseph Ward said the proposal was a reasonable one. Any extra interest local bodies might obtain outside the Government for the sinking fund would he scarcely worth considering, but if it were considerably more it would mean that security would bo precarious, and, further, it would make money dear. Under this proposal the Government guaranteed the whole investment of the sinking fund. Some other members said the effect of the clause would be to prevent- local bodies obtaining first-class security at high interest outside the Dominion. Mr T M. Wilford’s amendment was defeated by 41 to 20, and tho clause was agreed to. . Section 20 wjj amended to include the Native and Maori Land Laws Amendments Act.