TRAMS FOR GISBORNE.

Gisborne Times, Volume XXIX, Issue 3351, 18 October 1911, Page 5

TRAMS FOR GISBORNE.

THE STORAGE BATTERY SYSTEM.

COUNCIL ASKED FOR INCREASED

PRICE.

INTERESTING POSITION TO> BE REFERRED TO SOLICITORS.

The storage battery cars, which :t is proposed to introduce into Gisborne lor alls projected local tramway .system, was the subject of an interesting discussion during the meeting of the Borough Council last evening. lx will be recalled that in accordance with the requirements of the Public Works Department a cablegram .was Kent to the Beach Storage Battery Company asking them to make certain alterations in the cars to be supplied. TO this the following .cable was received: —“On account of the batteries, motors, brakes, accessories, chimneys, the amount would be increased by 71 io dollars, or £1495.” What the Cars will Cost.

In reply to a letter of July loth the Company stated : —■ “Unavoidably delayed, training our expert under whose supervision cars will bo installed at our expense. _ The expense of alteration will De 675 dollars per ear. Do you confirm?” Ci*. Brown explained that a meeting was called to confer with the late Mayor- and Engineer regarding the trams, and it was decided to send a cable asking the Company to provide 10 li.p. per axle instead, of 5. Cr.' Collins said he had refused to agree to any alteration in the cars, and did not attend the meeting. The Engineer explained that the ears were to be altered from 85 A 6 5 h.p. per axle t-o 105 AS, 10’ h.p. per axle—a size larger. He did not agree with the “pay as you enter” system, as recommended by Mr Lysnar. Ci\ Darton said the two cars were to cost £I3OO. But the Battery Company were now not prepared to accept that, and wanted to make another contract at an increased price. The cost would now be roughly about' £2OOO each with duty and freight. He thought that the Council had a very good chance of-getting out of the contract. . He moved!: —• “That the Council do not enter into a fresh contract with the Storage Battery Company for two cars at the increased price.” Councillor Bright seconded Cr. Darton’s motion, and in doing so said it had always seemed to him that the Council had originally adopted a most dangerous experiment in ordering these cars in the first place. So far as could be heard they had not been generally adopted, and it had been left to one of the smaller councils to _ take up a tramway system to experiment with this method of motive power. In any case two cars would be of no use. Cr. Brown : We might order ten. “ A Dangerous Experiment.” Cr. Bright: Yes, you might order ten, but where are you going to get the money? That is a question often asked, but never answered. We have adopted a most dangerous experiment. Cr. Collins: It is considered by some that the ratepayers in this Borough are a perpetual milch cow. Ur. Bright: It will not be long before it goes dry, and if you adopt means like this it will be sooner dry. I hope now the Council has the opportunity they will cancel this, or at least refuse to confirm this.

The Mayor: I would just like to point out that tills does not end the Council’s contract. I think we are still bound.

Cr. Bright: If they supply at our price. The Mayor: They are not the contractors. We have given them the contract, and are now asking them to supply several extras. Cr. Brown: The original contract laid down hard and fast things would have to be added to these cars.

The Mayor: We have estimated this, and thought 1000 dollars would do, and they say it will take another 675 dollars. It may be that this is a quite reasonable cost. I would like the opinion of practical contractors on this. At any rate, to allow the matter to be discussed, I will move as an amendment that we cable confirming this extra cost-.

Cr. Collins: Up to the present I have never laid my views before the Council on this car question. I am going to give them five minutes now. While agreeing with Cr. Darton’s motion I consider it a very dangerous precedent to set up. In the first place, th&re are councillors at this table' who are pledged to the Beach Car Company. These are Councillors Brown, Pettie, Sawyer, AVade and Webb— Ci 1 . Darton: A\ r e are all bound 1 .

Cr. Collins: -Pardon me. I didn’t vote. I was not here, and disapproved of the vote, so refused to attend' committee- meetings. Now. Cr. Darton is setting up this precedent. Either asking you gentlemen to confirm again your position with regard to the Beach Company or giving you a chance to get out of it. Now, I take it there is no option left for the Council, but to refuse to re-confirm that contract, which was insane in its conception. Cr. Darton : This is a new contract. You lxave not gripped it.

Cr. Collins: This is no new contract. The old contract was let when the Beach Oar Company unfortunately were not aware that any contract would have to abide by regulations laid down by the Government Department. Now yo '. get this cable asking for more money to carry out what you are pledged to do. You have to get the cars »>v eout. act, but whether you carry out ibe specifications -of Air Holmes in America or New Zealand does not matter. These cars will never run until you carry < i c his commands. Dead against the Beach Cars. Personally I am going to vote again.-*: the Beach cars in any way I can. You have had the audlacity to order two ears for experimental purposes, and if these were satisfactory order two more, or .seven or ten. These cars are costing £2OOO, therefore you propose, to experiment with £4OOO of the ratepayers money. A majority decided on. this and we have to thank that majority for the muddle they have placed l us in. Only that night Cr. Darton moved to ask for an Order-in-Oouncil for four miles of rails for this tramway. It was pointed out that we could not do less than seven, for fear of endangering the loan. Now you know that it is a fact that you have no hope of carrying, the tramway loan. It is doubtful if you will carry the electric light loan. Cr. Darton: And yet you voted! for seven miles.

Cr. Collins: I voted for the seven miles because I don’t believe in dealing unequally with ’ AYhataupo-ko, Gisborne and -Ivaiti. I say there is no chance of having this loan carried, and no chance of having your cars running on the streets of Gisborne under three

to four years. Cr. Collins then referred to the present expenditure, and' contracts let, bringing the amount up to about £13,000. Cr. Brown said that he had) read all the articles regarding these cars, and the Council would not lie- in a very grave position if they were not a success. They could be turned into horse ears the next day if they were not a success.

Cr. Smith said that the contract they had entered into with the Company was still intact. When the Company received the letter from the Council regarding the alterations they immediately cabled the cost. By trying to get out of the contract they would only find themselves in a greater muddle than Ci’. Collins said they were in now. The Company wanted so much more for the cars, and now ho had a paper stating a battery was to be- exhibited in London this month. He did not think Mr Edison would send this l for exhibition if it was not out of the experimental stage. Rather Expensive Trailers. If the cars were not the success they were anticipated they could easily get other cars, and if not they could be used as trailers for some other system.

Cr. Collins : At £2OOO each ? Cr. Darton said his motion was not to cancel the agreement with the Company. The power wss doubled on the recommendation of the engineer, but be (the speaker) held the Council, was bound by the original specification. The question of increasing the horse power of the cars was never authorised by the whole Council. An agreement went to the Company for certain alterations, and now they wanted an increased price and the Council had got a fair chance to say they would net confirm the extra expenditure. Had the Council known these cars were going to cost £4OOO they would not have been so eager to spend the ratepayers’ money. If the Company would , supply the car at the original price, well and good; the Council would have.to take it; but be was not prepared' to spend any more money on the cars seeing the Council would, perhaps, have to take the risk of having to turn them into trailers. The Beach Company were not putting their name to the old; contract, for they wanted a new contract, and now was the Council’s opportunity to ask them to supply the car under the original contract or not at all. The motion was then put, and lost on the casting vote of the Mayor, Crs. Collins, Darton, Bright and Sawyer voting for the motion, and Crs. Wade, Brown, Smith and Wildish against. “ Not a ‘ Try-on!’ ”

The Mayor then moved his amendment, and said he had heard nothing to make him think they had done wrong. A company of the stamp of the Edison Coy. if they could have carried on the contract for the price specified, would have done so. He did not think it was at all in the way of a “try on.” He would still stick to his opinion that it was the best thing to order the Edison battery cars. He could not see that any mistake had been made. All that had been spoken against these cars bad only been obstructing progress, and no other system had been advocated'. Cr Darton: There seen will be when we are clear of debts.

Hie Mayor, continuing, said that at any time it had 'been open for other Councillors to bring in other schemes. Cr. Darton: I moved for petrol cars.

Ci*. Pettie: It seemed t-o me that we were only standing still, and now 1 again vote for the extra cost, believing that it is only reasonable. Cr. Smith seconded the amendment for the reason put forward by the Mayor. The Edison Company were notsetting themselves out to “have” a poor little place like Gisborne. Cr. Brown also supported the Mayor. In answer to a question by Cr. Bright the Engineer explained that he considered the small box cars we:> being put out of operation. What they wanted was a car carrying at least 40 people, with two to look after it. The small 26-seating car might be of use in America, where the people were jumping quickly in and out, but here they would have rush hours, and would want a ,40-seater ‘to pay axle grease. Cr. Bright said he intended to move an amendment. It could be seen they were not going to complete all the tram system for £25,000. They were in a position to call a halt-. Surely now was the time to ascertain if the ratepayers were prepared to support the Council till the scheme was completed. His amendment was : “That the solicitors’ opinion as to the Council’s present position should be obtained, with regard to the contract, before confirming the cable.”

Continuing, Cr. Bright said they had been rushed into the contract, and should now consider the question as a whole, and get a report from a qualified engineer, and then say to the ratepayers: “Shall we do it, or hold our hand.”

CT. Collins agreed that they should review the position. AA 7 ith regard to the Mayor’s remarks that no other scheme had been advanced, he asked was the question a fair one. They had.. pointed out that other systems should •be considered, but- hadn’t had) an opportunity of placing a new.scheme. Air Lysnar had said that Air Edison had told .him that if the cars wore not satisfactory he was willing to return the money. Cr. Darton : It was not in the contract. A Division of Public Opinion. Cr Collins: No, but those were the words. Now you have the opportunity of reviewing the position. I don’t think now, that you can, sir (addressing tlic Mayor) ask the Council to vote for two cars without a reasonable carrying capacity, and* with a possibility that you will not have sufficient money to carry out the work, that you shouldn’t give an opportunity of reviewing the position. There is the possibility that you will not have your extra loan carried, in view of the division of feeling. AVe ask now the opportunity to review other schemes in the interest of the ratepayer. I will go so far as. to say that Councillors who vote for your motion are doing so in a spirit of pure arbitrary nature, with nothing at the bottom of'it but obstinacy. Cr. Darton supported the amendment, anti said the kind of car ordered was not going to lay up the system. He did not want to lay up the trams, and to prove this would! give- notice of motion at every Cou'ncil meeting that the four miles of rails should be gone on with. They were going for an experiment, and they were going to tie up the whole ‘of their system if it did not come off. It would lie- a costly experiment indeed. They liacl to go for a loan for a system the ratepayers had confidence in, and he did not think the ratepayers' would support the storage battery system. Cr. AVilclisli supported the amendment, '

Cr. Wade said lie was very glad to see that the matter was to be referred to the solicitors.

The Mayor said he would admit that Mr Bright’s amendment was a reasonable one, and he was not surprised that the newer members of the Council sup-

ported it. He would support it if the Council was doing an illegal act, but lie held that the Council would be perfectly justified in voting for the increase. There was no necessity for referring the matter to the solicitors, but if it was the wish of the majority lie would be pleased to do so. C'r. Darton’s argument would be alright if they were going in for oar after car, but they were only ordering two cars, and could alter the system if it was not a success. The cars could be used as trailers for some other system.

Cr. Darton : At £2OOO each. The Mayor : ,Tlrey are well constructed cars.

Cr. Darton: They would need to bo at that price. Continuing, the Alayor said that whatever the voting was he would be satisfied and he would work to carry out the wishes of the Council. The amendment was carried.

Cr. Bright suggested that the Alayor should refer the' matter to Air Metcalfe when he conferred with him to-day, and this the Alayor agreed 1 to do.