THE ELECTIONS.

Globe, Volume IV, Issue 456, 30 November 1875, Page 2

THE ELECTIONS.

MR B. C, J. STEVENS AT THE ODDFELLOWS' HALL. Mr E. C. J. Stevens, one of the candidates for the General Assembly, addressed the electors of Christchurch last evening, at the Oddfellows' Hall, There was a very large attendance. In the absence of his Worship the Mayor, who was detained at the fire, Mr Wynn Williams was voted to the chair. His Worship arrived subsequently and presided. After a few introductory remarks, the chairman called on Mr Stevens to address the meeting. Mr Stevens, who was received with applause, said—Mr Chairman and Gentleman, —Before I go into the consideration and discussion of any public question, I wish to give those electors of Christchurch who have not known me as an old colonist and as a politician some assurance from the past that I have had some little experience in public affairs, and that I have been sufficiently long in the country to identify me with its interests. Gentlemen, I shall not detain you more than one or two minutes on this subject. In 1866 I entered the House of Representatives as member for the Selwyn district, and in 1868 I had made sufficient progress in the opinion of those who formed the Assembly at that period to justify Mr Stafford in offering me a place in the Ministry—[applause]—an offer which I felt bound not from motives of private convenience, but on public grounds alone, to decline. In 1869, it was my painful duty to give a vote in that Assembly which might have bsen at variance with the interests of my constituency, but which I think was in the interest of the whole colony. It was upon the question of the corn duty proposed by Mr Julius Vogel in 1869. Then I met my constituents, and at the time I did so, I believe there were scarcely more than one or two hands in the district held up for me, and I received in the course of the recess an intimation that if I would vote the other way my seat in the general election could be secured. But, sir, when the question came up next year, and was carried, I voted against it again, exactly in the same spirit as I did the year before. Gentlemen, such was the change caused by the evidence perhaps of ft certain amount of resolution on my part, and that I was not incapable of acting in accordance with my views of public duty when occasion required, so far did I succeed in changing the opinion of the constituency, that I stood for that election, and lost it only by a single vote. Since then, gentlemen, I have been unfortunate enough to remain out of public affairs—not in Bpirit but merely in person—for I have watched with the keenest interest the public affairs of this colony from that time to this. I have taken part silently in them, and hare never lost my interest, and never shall. Now, gentlemen, in 1872, I believe that I might have sat in that Assembly for the Heathcote district, for I received a requisition of the most encouraging kind, but I refused for several reasons. One of the main reasons for my refusal was this : that I felt that the country had gone mad after expenditure, and as I told them, I felt that I would be expected to vote for railways which could not possibly pay, and which, as far as I can judge, would be utterly incapable of any public good, and I felt it was better to remain out of public affairs until public feeling had somewhat sobered. After these few remarks I now come to the questions of the day, and the first of these is that of abolition. [Hear, hear.J Gentlemen, I have been an abolitionist for many years. [Applause. J I was an abolitionist when engaged in public affairs; and therefore I come before you as an old abolitionist, and as one who believes it is not consistent with the interests of the country that the provinces should continue. I am so not only for the reasons commonly put forward in the General Assembly, but for some which I think have only been partially stated. I may take what I call a local view, and I may say that I have thought that the Provincial Government of Canterbury has recently done a very large amount of mischief. I think they have shown an illiberal spirit to this municipality. [Cheers] I think they have shown the narrowest views possible. When I think of the continued struggles which have taken place between the Superintendent—whose position is unfortunately only too anomalous—with succeeding Executives—l say that in my opinion, from a local point of view, the Provincial Government of Canterbury is of no practical value. [Cheers.] And, gentlemen, I take what I call a wider view of the matter— I say that the provincial system is injurious in principle. The Colonial Government— I don't care however good its intentions, however sound its policy—has been obliged to surrender its policy and modify its plans in obedience to large political sections who have come forward and demanded from them, as the phrase goes, "your money or your life." Now, sir, I have seen this, and it was still the case till the Abolition Bill was conditionally passed, not only that large amounts from the general taxes of the country were expended by those who were not responsible to the people for the money which arose from the taxes imposed upon the people, but that there was an absolute cessation of responsibility altogether from the moment the money left the Colonial Treasury. [Applause.] I must point out to you that so long as this system continues, so long will there be an absence of control. Gentlemen, I was sure the provincial system wonld begin to fail from the moment the people began to think colonially and not provincially. Hitherto we have always looked to see how any question affected our own particular province, and not how it affected the great body of our fellow-countrymen, and in consequence of the enormous sympathy of the people for the provinces, and the manner in which their whole attention has been absorbed by these Provincial Goveromeats,

there have been things done by the Colonial Parliament which never ought to have been done—| hear, hear]—and which never would have been done if the people had taken th« same interest in the Colonial Legislature as fts7 du * m their Provincial Councils. [Hear, hear.] We have been looking after the state of the house indoors, and meanwhile out of doors the fox has been running away with the goose. [Laughter.] I may say that not only is the whole thing exceedingly objectionable and dangerous, but it has resulted in this, that the measure of the necessities of the colony —what I may call the greatest common measure—has been taken, not according to the actual wants of the people, but according to the necessities of the poorest provinces, and that large sums have been paid out of the colonial exchequer for the mere purpose of supporting the Governments of provinces which really ought to have done away with, and as to which there was no possible excuse but a sentimental one for keeping them afloat. Gentlemen, I will say no more on the subject of abolition, but will now paBS on to questions which, in my opinion, are of the most vital importance to us. The minor matters I will leave, and trust you will diepose of them by asking me questions. You will gather from what I have already said that I am in favour of a complete change. I may also say that I think there is much cause to regret that the abolition policy was not brought in along with the public works policy of 1870, because in that case lam certain that a very large amount of money which has been altogether wasted, through such combinations as I have spoken of, would have been saved, and would be still at the disposal of the colony, Now, gentlemen, we are told that the great thing to look to before we abolish the provinces is, what are we to put in their place when they are done away with. Sir G. Grey is, I believe, addressing the electors of Auckland to-night, and he will, I have no doubt, spend a great deal of time in doing his best to convince the people of Auckland that their liberties are going to be trampled oni and that generally the people of this country will find the constitutional change that has taken place something most disastrous to them. Well, I am not altogether of the same opinion. I cannot take the view which seems to be held by a class of people who seem lo think that the people of this colony should elect a sort of patriarch, who, having been elected, should preside over their affairs, protect their interests, and generally act the part of a heavy father over their destinies. I think this, that Sir G. Grey shows a very fatherly interest in the province of Auckland. One of the things we find most constantly in his speeches is a demand that Auckland should be compensated, as he calls it, for the losses, the real or supposed losses, it has suffered from the fact that the Middle Island has a land fund of its own. It seems to be considered that large compensation should be made to the province of Auckland as a balance against the large sums it has lost from the general revenue of New Zealand in consequence of having no land revenue. Now, gentlemen, I.cannot say that I sympathise with that view, neither, I think, do you. [Cheers and laughter.] Now, gentlemen, I have to ask what place dees the Provincial Government occupy at present ? Is it such a place as enables it to do such work and secure such an administration of public affairs that it cannot without serious damage to the interests of the country be swept away ? Is it necessary for us to have recourse to separation ? Within the last five years we have given £1,000,000 to Sir Donald M'Lean for the pacification of the North Island, a result which, if we may judge from the Ministerial statements, or indeed from the evidence of what we see before us, has been fairly well accomplished. After speuding all this money for the sake of unity, is it a desirable thing to apply for separation ? Or again, is separation a desirable thing after we have spent £700,000 of colonial money in the purchase of native land for the purpose of making a land fund for the North Island ? If anybody thinks so I cannot agree with him. I say for my part it is a foolish thing. There is nothing to be gained by it. The same remark applies to the insular policy which contemplates a federal union for certain purposes between the two islands. I ask you, are the people of this province likely to be in any way better off under such a system, or to enjoy a greater degree of liberty than under such a system as that proposed by the Government which I am going to refer to ? I think not. Now, what the Provincial Councils are doing now, gentlemen, may be briefly summarised as follows :—They are looking after the gaols, police, hospitals, industrial schools, orphanages, charitable aid, inspection of sheep, and education ; they are also for the time being taking care of the railways of the province, wharves, and contingent works. Public works are of course coming to a very small matter indeed. Now it has been proposed that we should have an elected Superintendent to do all this without any Provincial Council. But if that plan is adopted, will you tell me how you are going to get any responsibility to the Colonial Government ? I will give you my view of the matter, >and you can tell me if lam right. Suppose we have an elected Superintendent of this province, and one in Otago, and so forth, and suppose any of these elected officers—call them agents, or what you please—chooses to disobey the Colonial Government—what then? What control will the Ministry have on him ? And as}l said before, unless the Ministers who are responsible to the people through their representatives have full control, so that they can be made fully responsible for every act of Government, what is the use of having a House of Representatives 1 This is one of the leading features in what you have heard of lately as the Ashburton programme—[laughter]—and I cannot support it. There are some old politicians who think it desirable to have elected Councils and nominated Superintendents ; but that would contain many of the elements of the old system, and some of the most objectionable. It appears to me that the great thing we have to do is to work out the constitution carefully and considerately. Let us follow the example set us by the founders of nations that have possessed representative institutions. Let us proceed with the same caution and the same enquiring spirit, and ultimately we shall arrive at a system that will give the greatest amount of liberty and good Government to the people of this colony. ! | Cheers.] You cannot make a constitution from a receipt, as you could make a cake. What I say is, that we have to gradually work our way towards that system which experience will have proved to give the best securities for the public advantage and the public liberty. At present we have lost something that we do not want, This it (he

view I take, that nobody in particular has killed the provincial system, but from one cause or another the people of the colony have made up their minds that they do not want it any longer. [Cheers.] I say then, before we adopt any suddenly proposed scheme, which after all may not answer our purposes, let us first see what it has to do. I think you will observe that nothing we can propose will be final, that we must go on improving the con■titution and all the arrangements of Government of an administrative character, and in the course of time I have every expectation that it will be satisfactory. I read to you what has been done by the Provincial Governments. My opinion is that a Colonial Government is perfectly capable of administering all these departments, through proper agents, and by providing Boards of Inspection. I will take the first four or five departments, the gaols. hospitals, lunatic asylums, and charitable aid, Now gentlemen, taking these four, 1 see no reason why, if these departments of the State were to be looked after by the Colonial Government, and put under proper inspection (the Boards of Inspection consisting of some of the best men the colony has at its command—such men as are appointed to be Resident Magistrates or to other important offices—with a perfectly competent medical officer to advise them on sanitary questions arising out of the management of these institutions), I say, I see no reason why they should not be satisfactorily administered. When I say that the medical officer .should have inspectoral power over these departments, I do not mean that he should interfere with the hospital staff, but that he should give the best possible advice to his colleagues as to the way in which the internal management should be conducted as regards sanitary matters and questions of that kind. I think the same course might be adopted with regard to the lunatic asylums and the industrial schools and orphanage. I propose that these Boards should send in a report monthly to the Colonial Government of the state of every institution which is under their inspection; and I say that if things were not arranged satisfactorily, it would become the duty of the representatives in every part of the province interested in the management of these institutions, to use their best endeavours to force the Government, and to urge the Government on every possible occasion to see that any abuses were instantly remedied. [Cheers.] That is the opinion I hold with regard to these institutions. As regards the gaols, I am of opinion that these should be subjected to a similar inspection, so that there should be some regular means of supervision and regular system of reports, in order that the Colonial Government should be fully advised of the condition of any gaol in the country. As to the railways and the wharves, which are now universally acknowledged to be part of the railway system, I may say that if the abolition proposals had been carried into effect this year, the railways of this province would have passed to the General Government in extinction of the provincial debt. Now, gentlemen, what I am saying is, you will understand, not to be regarded as anything more than experimental. Possibly it may not answer. But you have got security that, if your members do their duty, and if the duration of Parliament is not too long, all these things can be altered, not at the will and pleasure of anybody else, but at your own will and pleasure. [Cheers.] Now I put it to you in answer to those who say that the cause of local administration and the liberty of the public are put in danger by this chaDge—l ask you how, if you have proper representatives and a reasonable system of inspection under the immediate control of the General Government, and undoubted responsibility, you can possibly suffer 7 Look at the other departments administered by the Colonial Government—there is the customs, which has been for years and years, from the very beginning of the colony, in the hands of the General Government, and it has been a success. Then there is the registration of lands which I can say from my own experience is well administered, and is also a success. There is the telegraph again, which every one admits to be well managed. Well then, I ask if the telegraph and customs and the administration of law and justice have been well managed for so many years, is it not reasonable to suppose that the other departments can be also carried on equally well ? I must ask you also to bear in mind the management of immigration by the Colonial Government. The Provinces of Canterbury and Otago used to carry on immigration for themselves on a small scale, but lately the whole management has been transferred to the General Government, and the Provincial Governments, I believe, have had nothing at all to do with it; yet the management has been eminently satisfactory both in this ?>lace and everywhere else. [A Voice—'No, it has been a failure."] Well, sir, all I have to say is this, if there is anyone in this meeting who thinks I have misstated anything, if he will tell me personally of it he shall have an answer. ("He is not an elector.") 1 don't care whether he is an elector or not. Now gentlemen, I said lust now that, if Parliament did not last too long, there could be no possible danger in the change. I am going to say that our Parliaments are too long in their duration. [Hear.] With the changing circumstances of this growing country, the new population coming into it to settle the land to an extent that very rapidly changes the whole face of the country, it has become necessary that the duration of Parliament should be shortened. And I say that, in view of this abolition, I think it would be a measure of security, and one that I should think it a public duty to vote for bringing about, that triennial Parliaments should be substituted for the five years that Parliaments now exist. [Applause.] I should be very glad to come before you every three years. I should much prefer that to holding my seat for five years with a coldness during the last two years between myself and my constituents. Gentlemen, I say also this, that it will be the bounden duty of the representatives of New Zealand in the General Assembly to work hard. [Hear, hear.J There must be no amateurs among us. I think I may claim that, when I was in Parliament before, I never was an amateur. I always worked to the best of my ability, and I say that now the circumstances of thecolony have so greatly changed, that we have a population so much larger, thtt interests have grown up which are of so far more importance than formerly, and that we are called on to deal with questions of the greatest magnitude, I say that if a member is going to do any good to the country, his ears must always be open and his hands ready to execute any business of the public; that he must be on terms of

cordial sympathy with those whom he represents, and in constant communication with them on every subject of public importance. [Cheers.] If this is the case, I believe that this change cannot possibly be of the slightest injury to the public. So long as the Ministry are directly responsible to the representatives of the people, and those representatives responsible to the people, I cannot see how it can be otherwise than that the voice of the people of the colony should always be supreme. [Cheers.] There is one point which I have not got on my notes, but which I must refer to, namely, the constitution of the Legislative Council. Now I know that of late the Legislative Council has done a great deal of injury to the people of this province in education matters. I know too that it is inconsistent with the spirit of the age, and with the feelings of us colonists who are not particularly endowed with veneration for old institutions based upon any antiquarian theories. Inmyopinionthetimehascomewhen the Legislative Council ought to be elective. [Loud cheers.] But there is one drawback. If you do what I conceive would be right to do, namely, if you give the Legislative Council a long tenure of office, and also give them powers exactly equal to those of the House of Kepresentatives, including the vexed question of Money Bills (which you cannot withhold from them when they are elected by the people as much as the members of the Lower House), can you afford to weed out your Lower House of Bepresentatives to make a second elected chamber 1 I doubt whether we can find a sufficient number of men in New Zealand ready to come forward for the sake of servingjtheir country. But if this can be managed I think it would be a desirable change, and I am prepared to give my support to it. [Applause.] Gentlemen, I am anxious not to detain you, and therefore I will come at once to to the question of education. [Hear, hear.J Owing to the unfortunate action of the Provincial Council in its last session a change, which is only too familiar to you, has taken place; the old Board system has been abolished, and instead we have what is called a Minister for Education. [Laughter. | Now gentlemen the first thing is to restore the position of that Board. [Hear, hear, and cheers.] At present we are in this position that the effect of the Abolition Bill is to leave Canterbury out in the cold. I have the Abolition Bill here, and I find from clause 10 that when the provinces are abolished, the management of reserves for educational purposes will vest in the Boards of Education. But in Canterbury we have no Board. The first thing to be done then is to put the Board back again—[Cheers]—and after that it will be time to ask what must be done in the future. What I hope to see is this, that after the Board is re-established steps will be taken for continuing it, and for the continuance of the system of education in this province by a Board nominated by the Governor, which shall be accountable tj the Minister who is in charge of the education of the colony. I have not the least doubt that a first-class Board can be got in this province, composed like Boards we have had, of men sincerely disposed to the work. [An Elector—Why should not the Board be elected ?] Where then would be the responsibility? The Board hitherto has not been elected, but nominated by the Superintendent. I do not think you will gain much if you try the elective plan ; at all events let us try the other, and if you find it does not work well it can easily be altered. As regards education I look on it as one of the first of national duties. I do not take the same view of education as has been taken by the majority of the Provincial Council. I do not sympathise with the peddling policy that ha 9 for its object the getting of certain small fees and certain small rates here and there; but I look upon it that it should be placed on .the consolidated fund. [Cheers.] It is a national work and ought to be charged upon the national revenue. And, gentlemen, I am altogether in favour of the preservation of the system of scholarships, by which the child of any man, of whatever condition, can, on becoming successful in the ordinary routine of scholastic work, be able to procure at the public expense an education which will carry him higher. I believe that this system will give us in the future some of the most valuable men that will ever take part in the affairs of the country. Gentlemen, I think you will see that my views on education are not of that narrow kind that seek to limit it to the merest elementary subjects thatcan be taught—mere reading, writing, and arithmetic. I have no sympathy with that view. I am of opinion that the State should take a far wider view, and should endeavor to briug its range of education up to the highest possible standard. [Cheers.J I have now a few remarks to make on the railway policy of the Government, and am sorry to say that I do not think it has been altogether a success. The expenditure has been something perfectly enormous. The amount of money which has been borrowed is immense, and I am much afraid that it has not paid us twenty shillings in the pound. Major Atkinson has declared that if the railways of the colony were sold they would fetch about £8,000,000. Now my enquiries inta the matter have satisfied me that they would not fetch more than half the money. I have never ceased to regret the failure of the attempts made by the Opposition in 1870 to ensure that accurate surveys should be made and everything carefully examined into before any railways were undertaken. I am sorry to say that these attempts were unsuccessful. The ink was hardly dry on the Bailways Bill before the borrowing and spending of money was begun, to the frightful loss and detriment of the country. I refer now to one of the causes of the mischief that has arisen, and the waste of money. When I read the figures you will see how the colony has been affected, and whether the colony has had half the value of its expenditure. Look at the Kaipara railway. The Government got a Bill passed which was supposed to give the greatest possible security to the public, by providing that no railway should be made which would not at least pay its working expenses. Now this is what came of it. When the Chief Engineer reported that the Kaipara railway would not pay expenses, and so, according to the Act, it could not be made, the Government straightway brought in a Bill expressly providing that this prohibition should not apply to the Kaipara railway, and got it carried. Now, I ask you, what is the use of Government getting protective measures passed if, when the Act comes into force, the first thing they do is to bring in another Bill to upset it 1 I have always regretted that a proposal made some yearß ago was, not

adopted, that there should be a committee appointed whose business would be to examine every detail respecting every proposed railway, and whose report should be taken into consideration by the House before it was decided what railways should be made. Whenever any new works have to be undertaken, as of course they will some day, I sincerely trust that this proposal will be carried into effect. I must say that in finding fault with the management of the railway policy I am not imputing any blame to Mr Richardson. I know he has worked very hard, and the immense amount of labour that he has done. It is not the fault of the Minister who has administered the scheme; the fault lies in the political part of the affair. [Cheers.] I now come to that most important question, the financial condition of the colony. I have here the figures of the Colonial Treasurer, from which I find the following results. [A gentleman of rather peculiar appearance here got on the platform and appeared desirous to address the meeting, but ultimately retired. J As the gentleman does not appear to wish to address the meeting at present, I will go on. I find from the remarks of the Treasurer on this subject, that the amount of money not yet raised is £1,312,100, left of the loans guaranteed by the Government, and that the whole is wanted to complete works. But, sir, what will be our position when all our loans are gone ; we shall be like the prodigal son, and have to make ourselves contented with the husks. Therefore I say, gentlemen, that the financial condition of the colony is such as to call for our most serious consideration. [Hear, hear.] Sir Julius Vogel told us the other day that the colony will bear thirty or forty millions, I do not say it will not do so by and bye, but I say that in the present state of finance here that it will not do bo now. [Hear, hear.J I will now mention this, that although the sinking fund is gradually reducing the capital of the debt, the annual payment will have to be kept up so long as the loans are unextinguished. I have here a large number of figures, which I will read you if you like. I do not wish to weary the meeting; but it is necessary that I should put before you very plainly the present state of the finance of the colony. [Hear, hear.] The following would apparently have been the estimated colonial revenue if abolition had been carried : Customs and bonded stores ... £1,330,000 Fees under certain Acts 16,750 Stamp duties 125,000 Postal 91,000 Telegraphic 62,000 Judicial fees and fines 39.000 Registration, land and deeds ... 30,250 Births, deaths, and marriages ... 5,000 Crown grant fees 6,000 Miscellaneous 2,700 Net revenue on railways open for traffic 49,724 Incidental receipts 65,000 £1,815,424 To this may be added the surplus of last year, £120,446, a surplus which may not again be realised. It should be noticed that the estimate is £160,913 over the actual receipts of last year. The colony would apparently receive a refund from the provincial districts of £218,424, and for interest on completed railways £97,518. These items would make a total revenue of about two millions and a quarter. The expenditure would apparently have been— Interest on total loans for which colony is liable and sinking fund £945.785 Civil list 29.750 Under certain Acts 47,110 Public departments 74,459 Law and justice 65,721 Postal and telegraphic 222,509 Customs 67,292 Miscellaneous 43 898 Militia and Volunteers 22,885 Public domains 23,351 Armed constabulary 91,000 Native 36,191 £1,659,951 To this must be added the provincial services, which I believe would have been provided for at the rate of £270,000 a year after allowing for provincial revenue, There would still remain a large apparent surplus, but when it is remembered that the surplus from last year may not happen again, that the estimate includes an excess on last year tbat may not be realised, and that the loan charges will rise in 1877 to about one million and thirty-five thousand, it can hardly be expected that there will be any considerable margin after providing for proper administration. My object in placing these figures before you is to show what possibility there is of doing what I believe would be the best financial arrangement, viz, to place all our loans on the consolidated fund without apportionment, and so leave the land fund of both islands free to be applied to Municipal and Road Board purposes and local public works. But I fear that until the railways shall return more revenue than at present, or some increase in the revenue takes place, it would be difficult to adopt it without further taxation. I think this would be by far the best mode, as we get rid at once and for ev«r of the vexed question of the land fund, and remove a great many difficulties which have hitherto stood in the way of the solution of this matter. Regarding the policy of the Government in respect to the interest of the loans in the North Island being met by the issue of Treasury Bills, I am bound to admit that the issuing of Treasury Bills until the land it is proposed to purchase is acquired from the natives, is open to objection. And now, gentlemen, I come to a great question, one which for some time we have had in our minds —I mean the question of what we shall do with our pastoral runs. Gentlemen, I have given this question great consideration, and I trust my views upon it may be acceptable to you. As you are aware, in the year 1880 the present leases of the runs expire. I may say that I hear and have read several opinions about the legal aspect of the question, but this is one which I am not going into now, as it is purely a legal question, but I may say this, that I do not think that we shall find much difficulty in arriving at a practical solution of the question what is to be done with the runs, if fairly considered. I have come to this conclu elusion, that the pre-emptive rights in 1880 should fetch afair price or else be taken over. After this I hold two leading principles, one of which is to keep the land open for sale, and to get a price for it which is fair, that is what it is intrinsically worth, and any policy meeting these two requirements will be satisfactory to me. I have heard it said that we ought to cut up the runs into 1000 acre blocks or so for sale but I don't think this would

be right. It would be the meaus of bringing about a perfect state of chaos. The work of assessing alone would be something fearful, and generally I think it would be productive of great disorder and loss of public revenue. Nor do I think that there will be anything in the proposition which would compensate for this evil. I have heard it said that these runs would produce a very large amount of revenue if let at the rate of say Is 6d per acre, which it was asserted could easily be procured ; I have no doubt it could, not for one moment, but then it would be on conditions. You would have to give conditions to the purchasers or lessees of these runs. And, gentlemen, I would ask you what those conditions would be? Why, simply a guarantee to the purchaser of fixity of tenure; in point of fact that you would have to give them a lease. | Hear, hear.J If, gentlemen, you give them a lease, as I see was proposed by Sir Dillon Bell recently in his speech at Waikouaiti, you will have locked up your lands most effectually from sale, and from sale too to a class of bona fide colonists who are anxious to buy. There are, as I know myself of my own knowledge, numbers of laborers who are saving up money to buy land, and there are numbers of immigrants coming out whose desire is to settle on and improve the land, opening up and colonising the country. Bui, gentlemen, they will not be able to get land, because you cannot give it them if you grant this fixity of tenure. [Hear, hear.] To do it will, I say, be productive of the very greatest disaster, Let the runs be open for selection and sale as the land is now ; let us keep them in the same position as to selection and sale, which to my mind is the proper method of dealing with this question. If you do not do this you will have the land locked up almost entirely from bona fide settlement. I want most particularly to bring this aspect of the case before the advocates for putting up these runs to public auction. I say at once do not put them up to auction, because if you do you will commit an act of injustice, and one fraught with evil consequences to the people. I do not look at it from a legal point of view, but from a business and common sense one. What do we do to the present tenants of the runs by the course proposed to be adopted by some whose speeches I have read, and whose arguments I have heard ? Why you say to them you must sell your stock below its intrinsic worth, and you send them forth into the world. But not only this ; I go further than this—further than the mere individual matter, and I say that this course cannot be carried out without loss to the country. I am satisfied of this, that although persons who may take these runs may want some of the stock, and will be prepared to take a certain quantity of sheep and cattle, yet the influx of stock into the market which would necessarily arise would cause such a fall as to be perfectly frightful in its results. [Cheers,] The whole credit of the country would be shaken, as those who lend money on property of this description would refuse ad* vances. If the present holders of the runs are willing to allow of a fair assessment of rent being made, then I say that they are the best persons to bold them [cheers] ; but under certain conditions —conditions which would not prevent us from taking the lands under certain circumstances, as would be the ca«e if we granted a fixity of tenure. I don't say that we should not have power to take reserves for educational or other purposes, that I think is worth consideration, but I do say, and I say it as as one who does not possess a sheep, and is not likely to have one, that if we agree to the scheme of the auction of these runs in small lots, we shall strike a blow at the credit of the country which it will take long to recover. [Hear, hear ] I cannot find it in my heart to say to those"who have had hard times, but who may be now more prosperous—l cannot say to them, you must go out into the world, for the purpose of taking an imaginary advantageous offer from speculators. Gentlemen, that is what it means—it means that these lands, if you carry out these proposals, will not be used for the furtherance of the settlement and colonisation of the country, but will be purchased by speculators [Cheers. | I do not take a squatter's view of this question : nor a cockatoo's view, but I say we must remember that we have got to provide land for people who are coming to our shores, and who have goi to do the good work of colonisation. [Chears.J I ask you before you consent *o srehfa plan of disposal of the runs as putting them up to auction to consider what the effect of such a step will be on the country. It is not a question of class against class, but a question affecting the whole country. Lot us look at it as a matter of businecs, and I am very strongly of opinion that you will agree with me that some such principle of public policy as I have endeavored to bring before you in dealing with this question will be most advantageous to the best interests of the country. [Cheers.] Gentlemen, having now given you my opinions on this important question it seems to me that I ought to state what I will do if elected as one of your representatives in regard to supporting the Ministry of the day. It is naturally a question of great interest to know whether I intend to give a general support to the Government of the day or not. Now, sir, there are various things which the Government has done, amongßt others abolition, but this I think, not because they particularly cared about it, but rather that it has been forced upon them, therefore I would be disposed to give them a conditional support; but when I come to consider various matters to which I shall allude, I may at once say fithat if elected I shall not be prepared to give them my entire suppport. [Cheers.] Sir, the Government have done some extraordinary things ; but, before going into their larger offences, I may say that they appear to me to have shown themselves entirely ignorant of the way in which legislation should be condncted. Let me take one notable instance. They wanted to introduce an amendment in the stamp laws—to provide for some succession or legacy duties—and yet they could not help putting in a tax upon mortgages, and this at a time too when the Colonial Treasurer was informing us in his financial statement that there was a surplus. Thus we had the singular spectacle of the Colonial Treasurer on one side stating that he had a surplus, and on the other, his colleague, the Minister of Justice, putting on a tax on mortgages. It seems to me, gentlemen, that nothing could be more absurd than this contrast. [Cheers.] Then again, with regard to the lodger franchise. A Bill was introduced to effect this. As you are aware, under the present Act, they are not entitled to vote. I am not going to say that they should or should not do so; perhaps, under certain circumstances, it might be wise; but

the Government brought in a Bill, and they could not do this without giving the lodger manhood suffrage. Here are we holding certain qualifications which a lodger does not possess for voting, having a stake in the country, and yet the Government propose to pass a law giving to them manhood suffrage. Gentlemen these things prove very clearly to me that the Government does not give sufficient consideration to their measures, It has been altered since in the measure, and the Government proposition in the Bill was dropped. There are two or three things connected with the conduct of the Government to which I take serious exception. I allude especially to the statement made over and over again by the Government when introducing the last Tariff Bill. It was then stated that the proposed measure would not add to the taxation of the colony; this was reiterated by the Government, but no sooner did the Chambers of Commerce throughout the colony sit down to the consideration of the Bill than it was found that it would'add to taxation of the people of the colony by some £IOO,OOO a year. [Hear, hear.] Now, sir, I say this is not the way a question of this kind should be dealt with by the Government. [Cheers.] If they wanted to introduce fresh taxation it was their duty to come down to the House, and frankly say so, not to attempt to get it by saying that it did not in any way add to the burdens of the people. [Cheers] Therefore I do not at all agree with them in the way they did this. [Cheers.] Ido not want to go far back into history for what I am going to state to you, but you will all remember the Brogden contracts, and you will recollect that I took the opportunity of addressing you upon them—l then expressed the opinion, which I still hold, that the entering into those contracts was a mistake. [Cheers] Then, again, we have a member of the Government who goes away when he likes, and remains away as long as he likes. In fact the members of the Government seem to treat us in a manner which seems to me to strongly suggest that they consider us as children. [Cheers.] I am therefore not prepared to give an unqualified support to men who do not stick to the colony and to work. [Cheers.] There are some of them who do so, and some for whom I have the highest possible respect, but I have no confidence in some of them—men who leave the colony at all times and all seasons. [Cheers.] Then, sir, with respect to the Californian mail contract which has recently been enterei into, there was a distinct breach of propriety and faith, both with the House and the country, | Cheers.) Another matter to which I will refer, in which there has been a distinct breach, not perhaps of faith, but of common sense—l allude to the Polynesian scheme of last year. It was to this effect, that the Government should enter into a compact with a company of gentlemen to pass all the trade of Fiji through this colony for fifty years, and I ask you if you think it was at all a speculation for which £50,000 a year of revenue ought to be paid out as a guarantee on the capital of the company. [Cheers.] What is Fiji even now, its trade is but small, and surely it would only have been right, looking at it from a common sense point of view, for the Government to have waited until the trade which it was proposed to pass through oar ports was worth something. [Cheers.] Then there is the case of dealing with the lands in the North Island, as detailed in the report of the committee on the sale of the Piako swamp. Sir, this is a question of very grave importance, affecting as it does our good Government, and it is only right that the public should know the facts of the case, and not only so, but express its opinion upon it. [Cheers] Here we find that the Government, sold by a distinct breach of the law, remember, 80,000 acres to capitalists—there was no reason in the world why this land should not have been sold as our land is—viz, put up at a fixed price, and sold in a proper manner. But, sir, no ; this land has been dealt with otherwise, has been sold for some £20,000, with power to the parties buying it to receive back a portion of it—half of it, £lo,ooo— condition of a road being made, which was considered necessary, in the district. But, sir, I would ask why, if a road was necessary in this district, the Government did not get the cost of that road placed on the appropriation of the Assembly. They had large appropriations for roads in other parts of the North Island votes were taken for these, and why did they not get a vote of this—[cheers]—and keep the land and sell it to settlers—men who wanted it. [Cheers] But no, sir, this was not done ; nor was any explanation given of the matter, and never will be. [Cheers.] There are other transactions in land in whicVi I will not. say that advantage was taken by persona of their position with the Government, but certainly they were such as we have cause to be ashamed of. [Cheers.] If I am returned as one of your representatives, I shall always, as I have hitherto done, set my face against such transactions being carried on, and oppose such a state of things as I have pointed out. It is hard if we, who have come here to plant and build up what we hope will one day be a great nation, and who have plauted our foot here, cannot keep the hands of our Government unfettered by such dealings. [Loud cheers] Now, gentlemen, I place myself before you. _ I regret that we have not a larger meeting here this evening, because there are some who may not read my remarks, who might, if they had been here, perhaps liked to have asked me some questions. I shall always be with you when not in the House, should you elect me. 1 desire to do some public work during the time I have yet to live, and if you make up your minds in my favor after what you have heard on the points of policy which I have disclosed, I ask you to elect me to enable me to do some public work foryou. [Loud and continued cheeiiagj

In answer to questions, Mr Stevens said that he did not think the heads of departments of the railway were too highly paid, as if they wished their work well done they must pay a fair salary. They must recollect that very great responsibility rested on those entrusted with the management of our railways, and it was only fair that their remuneration should be according. [Oheers.] As to triennial Parliaments, he had already referred to that in his speech, but he would again say that he was in favor of it. Before asking his Worship to request any elector to ask a question, he would first answer a series of written questions which had been sent to him that day by Mr W. Sneddon. The first of these was as regarded the question of honorarium to members during the session of the Assembly. He was asked to say whether he was or was not in favor of this. Now, he might say at once that there was a good deal to be said on

both Bides. He did not think it was a good thing to do, bat at the same time there was no doubt that they would lode good men if the honorarium were not in existence. Indeed, in one instance, when the honorarium was £1 perjday, which was supposed to cover expenses, they had lost the services of a very good one who held a small farm—a very eminent man. Now it had been altered to £l6O for the session, which was, iu his opinion, too much. On general grounds, however, he was disposed to say that he would vote against the honorarium, though he would like to have time thoroughly to consider the matter. The next question he was asked was whether he would vote for a Bill to remove a member from the House who had been convicted before a magistrate of drunkenness. [Cheera and hisses.] He would just like to say, as he heard some hisses, that the question read by him was nothis own, it had been senttohim that day—[hear, hear) —and also whether he would be in favor of a Bill making it compulsory on a member to resign when called upon by three-fourths of the electors; Now as to the first part, he would say at once yes— [cheersJ —as regarded the second part of the question he could not do so, and he would tell them why. He thought that a provision of this character would be an alteration of their electoral system, and, therefore, he could not vote in favor of it. [Cheers.] The next question was whether he would be in favor of selling all lands in the same way as the Canterbury Waste Lands were. To this he said yes, if it meant that they should be |put up to public sale. They would have gathered from his speech that he was wholly in favor of this principle being carried out, but if it meant that all lands throughout the colony should be sold at £2 per acre uniform price —which he did not think it did—he would say that he did not think it advisable to do this. Mr Thomson asked Mr Stevens if, with regard to the sale of the Piako swamp, it was not a fact that the Government were for some years unable to obtain a offer for it, although it was open for sale. Mr Stevens said that this was he believed the case, but then they in Canterbury had land which had been open for purchase for some years, but that was no reason why it should be disposed of in the manner this block had been. [Cheers.] In reply to other questions, Mr Stevens stated that he was not aware of the value of the land ; it was not so much the price of the land he referred to as the question of principle. l_Hear, hear. J He was in favor of free education, that was, that the charge of it should be placed on the consolidated fund. He had always been opposed to education being denominational, and he was so now. As regarded the second part of the question, chat referring to it being compulsory, he was in favor of this being done. As regarded the question of immigrants' promissory notes given by them for their passages, he was not In favour of pressing for them; but if he was asked, as he was, whether he was in favor of those promissory notes being foregone, he said he was not, and that, bar accidents or illness, sooner or later these promissory notes should be paid. He had been asked whether the City Council or any public body were entitled to vote away the ratepayers' money for the services of clerks after they had received their salaries. Well, his opinion was, that if they elected a body of gentlemen to represent them, it was no use tying them down as to sixpences. If they waited their money they had the remedy in their own hands, and should get rid of them at the end of the year. As regarded the question of immigration, he was of opinion that it should be as nearly as possible proportioned to the labour requirements of the place, but he knew that it was very difficult for the Government to manage. There were cases of persons being out of work, and this was taken as typical of the condition of the whole colony. He, however, should not be in iavor of pouring in. immigrants when labor was abundant; but the fact was that this question would depend upon a variety of circumstances, such as the development of tbe country, &c. As regarded the question, whether the new Parliament would require to raise present taxation, he thought that this depended upon whether they went in for fresh borrowing or not, and whether the railways produced a revenue. The Colonial Treasurer anticipated a larger revenue this year, but the whole question depended, as he had said, upon the matters referred to; As regarded an income and property tax he might say that if the necessity of the colony required it he was prepared to advocate a tax which would include all property such as shares, &c. However, he hoped that the revenue would keep up sufficiently to prevent taxation, and also that the expenditure would be kept within such cautious limits as to prevent necessity for taxation. He was in favour of the municipalities receiving the same subsidy as the Boad Boards, but if they did this they could not be expected to get the fees and fines. He thought if the shire system was introduced the Road Board system would be the best to keep in force as now. The two districts of Christchurch Bast and Christchurch West were now amalgamated and had three members. If you require to put -en a property tax, he was in favor of absentees paying as much as any others. As regarded a central railway station, there were a number of considerations ; if they could get the land and afford it, it would be a most desirable thing. Begarding the question as to the Piako swamp, he might say that he believed that the land had been open for purchase for seven or eight years, but he did not lead the meetiDg to suppose it had not; but while he said this, he also pointed out that lands in other localities had been open for a similar period. At this stage of tbe proceedings the firebell rung out loudly, and the majority of those in the hall made a hurried exit. Those remaining, however, gave three cheers for Mr Stevens and three for the chairman, and the meeting dispersed.