THE HARBOR TROUBLE.

Gisborne Standard and Cook County Gazette, Volume III, Issue 338, 15 August 1889, Page 3

THE HARBOR TROUBLE.

DECISION TO SPEND £3,700 ON THE BIVEB. At the Harbor Board meeting on Tuesday evening, Mr Clark proposed the motion of which he had given notice, to ask the Marina Department to send an Engineer to report on the present and proposed works, and in the event of their not acceding to the request, that the Board import one at its own expense. A discuseion took place as to whether the Botion could be brought on in the face of the amendment that had bean made and lost at the previous meeting. The Chairman ruled that there was no resolution to revoke. Mr Chamber* said it was an unheard of thing for a member to give notice of motion between meetings. Mr Bennett said the by-laws stated seven days’ notice was all that was required. The Chairman did not think notice was required at all in regard to a motion of this nature.

Mr Clark, speaking in support of the motion, said he had watched the work closely from the beginning, and he had still great faith in it, bet the surrounding features were to an extent altering, and he should like to be a little more enlightened on the matter. He had every confidence in their Engineer, but should also like to hear the opinion of an outside Engineer. In asking for that he did not think he was reflecting on the Engineer. The sand trouble did not make matters look satisfactory, and it was for the satisfaction of the ratepayers that be proposed this course. In most works of the kind in the colony there was a consulting Engineer, and he thought it would be well if they could get one of the beat Engineers in the colony to confer with Mr Thomson as to the best means of overComing the sand trouble. Mr Townley seconded ths motion. He thought it was only reasonable that somo steps should bo taken. Difficulties had oo- • tarred which they had not been led to antici- • pate, and the fact that two fresh plane had bean prepared showed there was considerable doubt as to the utility of the works u at first designed, They were no doubt taking the right course in throwing the responsibility on the Government, as the latter were at present withholding their sanction for working on the plan the Board had sent down. The object of the proposition was to save money, and not to rush into works which might after wards prove useless. The oourse they proposed was a safe one and he considered it a pity they did not get some further advice earlier | the changes that bad come over the Work at present almost compelled them to toko some steps to know how they were likely to come out, They could depend upon it that when the plan for the training wall was sent down to Wellington there Would be a thorough investigation made before the work was' sanctioned, If the Government had the information which the Board wanted they would bo prepared to either accept or reject the plan, but if the plan was just sent down to Wellington they might bave to wait a considerable time before they got any reply at all, and would have to Bake repeated applications for something definite. Mr Chambers asked what Mr Townley meant by saying that different plans had been prepared, Mr Townley said there was then in Wellington a plan which the Government would Mt yet sanction, The Engineer said the sanction of Government was withheld because the plan was not quite in accordance with their own one. Mr Townley repeated that so far the plan bad been withheld, and yet here they were going to make a still greater deviation. The Engineer said the work was in the river.

Mr Chambers said the difficulty to ba mat was a very slight one, and could easily be met by the work proposed by the Engineer. The difficulty was not worth mentioning, and it was one of those difficulties met with in all works of that nature. By carrying ths proposition they would be advertising their weaknesses to fettle colony, and the week he had junt spent in j^kpierproved to him the interest taken in ■■MMeighbors by those who have harbors to There was hardly a man he met who ask him if our works had not “ bust Op.*’ Inside we have trifling dffiiculties which, when they get outside, are greatly magnified, and allowing such reports to go forth resulted in damaging ourselves, the district, and the colony. The sand difficulty oould be easily met, and if they dropped party feeling and went in boldly for making the Work a success there was no doubt it would be a success. Matters that were very simple in the district, like a snowball going down hill, got bigger and bigger, and when they got to Christchurch the people said we were “ bust UP.”. A man who never saw a theodolite in his life could see how the sand came to give the trouble, and most men could plan a way Of getting rid of it. This running away to ths Government whatever happened was simply the custom of New Zealand. There was nothing in the trouble to warrant asking the Government to send an Engineer, after Mr Higginson’s report. He did not believe the Government would send an Engineer, and the opinion of an Engineer they might themselves appoint would be valueless. They should worry on and try and get the Government to sanction some plan for getting rid of the sand. Mr Shelton did not agree with Mr Chambers that the matter was a small one. The Engineer, in his report that evening, told them that there was only ten feet of water where some time since there was 15J feet, and where he told them the soundings would be maintained z throughout th* work without the assistance of dredging. Sir John Coode, recognised as one of ths best Engineers in the world, told them that the wall proposed would be useless; and when Coode makes such a report and the Board’s Engineer differs with him, and the former’s views era borne out by the work itself and the Board's Engineer’s are not, he (Mr Shelton) thought it high time they should look and sea whst they were doing. He thought it Would be very suicidal to go on spending more money when such a difficulty remains in the way. Ths matter was one of vital importance to the whole work, and should not passed oyer lightly. He would support the Dr Pollsn s&id he voted against the resolution when it was proposed in Mr Shelton’s namo, and he did not see any reason to alter h»s opinion because the motion was now in Mr Clark’s name. He did not like this way of one Motion of the Board who had been v* attempting to force the thing upon the Board again • he did not think that was a proper way to conduct public business. He perfectly satisfied that the explanation by the Engineer was the correct one, Ind he was satisfied that the les* expensive plan would be an effective check on the sand. The Engineer told him he was quite satisfied the work was going on all right and he did not want any consultations, Sir John Coode’e opinion was probably based on infortion wpplied by Captain Ohrisp, who believed thue was a current from the westward, but the most careful soundings taken by Mr Thomson had given no indication at all of Buch a current. Mr Thomson bad been in Gisborne for four years, and in the course of his duties must bave bad a thorough knowledge of bow things were going on, Was it likely any outside Engineer coming here for three or four days could give an opinion ag valuable as that ot Mr Thomson ? If the other side made the Proposition that Mr Thomson was either a fool or a rogue then the motion ought to be earned, for it would Indicate that he was either one or the other. He bad every confidence in Mr Thomson, and would vote against the motion, Mr Bennett confessed that he was a perfect •gnostic in the matter. It seemed to him that members might treat the harbor as a tick man being attended to by his physician : it would perhaps get a little more sick, but when the wall was put out it would then be right onopgh. Ever since he had been a patmber of the Board it had been impressed Upon them that their Engineer wae the best Zealand | then why go outside to get different troiniona? He did not think any Engineer in New Zealand would find fault with what another one does—they did ’JSJ wben own might come. [Mr Chsmberi! That is g 76 ry low argugent | B was a true one all the same* If If2 would prefer to have the matter lati tor the deckion of Sir John Coode be Ae “ he Would

The Chairman said to tell the plain truth he had not got any conviction on the matter, but he felt a good deal as Mr Chambers had done. They ought not to be cast down because things did not go precisely as they would like them to go. The difficulty was one with which 'hey ought to be able to cope; it was not as though the sand was being dropped from the clouds and they oould not understand where it came from. It might be he was mistaken in supposing that Mr Chambers’ view was the correct one, but it was his the (Chairman’s) view, and as they oould see what was happening surely they would be able to devise some means to remedy it. To carry the resolution would be to give a powerful lever to those persons who are opposed to the building of any harbor at all, the Wuiapu people for instance. It would be said that in Gisborne they had neither confidence in the Engineer nor themselves and they flew to Government for assistance. It was very doubtful if the Government would send an Engineeland he did not think the opinion of a mere bird of passage would be of value as against that of their own Engineer. Whether things ware as Mr Thomson expected, he did not know, but he could not help thinking that Mr Thomson could see what was occurring, and knew the means to prevent it, He did not believe in the smaller wall, as it would be of no utility, as the sand would trouble them from the eastward os well as the westward. They should do all they could to protect the river harbor which had been so useful to them in the past. His last reason for voting against the motion was that when it was proposed to alter the existing state of things and it came to a balance of voting, it was usual to allow that state of things to continue. Mr Clark resented Mr Chambers’ suggestion that he was actuated by party feeling. He was rated to the extent of 9d per acre for this harbor, and when a man had that on his property, it was enough to make him drop party feeling. He dia not care one iota for any party feeling outside. He simply wished that the thing should be a success. Dr. Pollen talked about a fool or a rogue; he had nothing to do with any such thing, if he were in the Engineer's position he would feel that it would greatly strengthen him to have the support of another Englneer. In medicine and in law it was commbn for consultations to be held, and they frequently had legal additional advice in their ordinary business. The Chairman said he was in favor of the extensive work: would it not be better to have the Engineer's opinion corroborated by another Engineer, instead of by the Chairman ? As far as he could seethe Engineer himself was in doubt, as he had put two plans before them, Dr. Pollen, in explanation, said he had not meant to imply that Mr Clark intended any imputation against the Engineer. He thought that the motion might b« taken to mean that.

Mr Shelton wished to make a quotation from Sir John Goode’s report, but objection being made the Chairman ruled him out of order.

Mr Shelton said he thought that in an important matter of this kind the Board should have all the information that could be got, The Chairman usually allowed members to speak several times on a questidh, and he thought that it was hardly right that they should be stopped when one merely wanted to give information bearing on the subject. The motion was then put and lost. For ! Messrs Clark, Townley, and Shelton. Against: The Chairman and Messrs Bennett, Chambers, and Dr Pollen. Mr Townley then said that as the sand was costing them so much mere the Engineer ought under the circumstances be allowed to dredge it from the river. The Chairman said that everything should be done to improve the river and make it workable.

Mr Chambers said he had been told by one man that it had cost him £6 Is for lightering. Mr Clark : They will have to pay £l2 2s before long. Mr Chambers: Yes, if you have it your way. Mr Clark: If yon have it your way.

A good deal of time was then taken up in the inspection of the rough plans by the Chairman, Mr Chambers and the Engineer, and there was much theorising and manysuggestions made by the two first named gentlemen, while some of the other members sat and looked smilingly on. After a time Mr Chambers moved that the plans be sent for the approval of Government, the more costly one to be recommended, Mr Bennett seconded, Mr Townley thought that a proper plan should be laid before the Board previous to anything being sent to Wellington. It would take the fortnight in preparation. Mr Bennett; It has been practically hung up for three meetings. What else do we waut ? Would we be any wiser if we saw the plan ? The Chairman ; I would not, Mr Bennnett: We should not be the slightest bit wiser if we saw two or three green lines travelling about. Mr Townley strongly contended that it was not right to send away plans that had not been submitted to the Board. Mr Thomson: The Marine Department want most extensive plans. In the course of further remarks the Engineer said if he went down to Wellington he would be able to explain the plans, so that would save filling in the one chosen until afterward. Mr Shelton said he would now be in order in reading what be was not permitted to do in the first instance. He opposed any further works in connection with the rough plan before them, because Sir John Coode so distinctly told them that any work of the kind would be futile. He says : “ Having regard to the great extant of sandy beach in the Bay—extending, in fact, for several miles to the southward of the town and river entrance—and also to the aspect and exposure of the Bay itself, I am unable to recommend any solid structure between the shore and the line of three fathoms at low water, feeling assured, as I do, that a serious amount of sanding up on the inner or western side would inevitably follow, and to an extent that, to say the least, would be highly prejudical to the present river entrance and to the utilisation of the new work.”

Mr Chambers said Sir John Goode's opinions were based on false premises. Mr Shelton said it was sufficient to know that the opinions were given by Sir John Coode and that he was responsible for them, Mr Chambers said Coode was guided by Information from a man who said the sand oame from the westward. Mr Shelton i What Sir John Coode told us has happened. ' ' Mr Chambers: It has been proved most conclusively that the sand comes from the eastward. Bi r Shelton : It has been proved most conclusively that Coode knew what he was talking about, and what he said has just taken place. Mr Chambers repeated that Coode only took the word of Captain Chrisp and Mr Perham, In reply to Mr Shelton the Engineer said the beach was affected up to Grey Street. The Chairman : Oh, It goes farther than that; it affects it for over a mile, it has cut Off about six feet up there. The Engineer : The bottom of the bay is gradually filling up, Mr Townley said they should have some good reasons to send to Government iu favor of the proposed work. He would like to ask the Engineer whether the principle on which he based his work had not broken down—that was that the scour would keep the pier clear. The Engineer replied in the negative. Mr Townley i Then why introduce this new scheme P The Engineer : It is on the plan. Mr Townley (referring to groin shown in the principal plan) • No j this is for works when Gisborne grows to be a city, The' Engineer i The work has been out off short, Mr Townley: We do not know what we are going to complete yet. The work is going on now, and yet other work which was not contemplated is said to be a sityThe Engineer i I did not advise this. It was proposed by the Board) they said this should be-done. Mr Townley I Then ths responsibility is thrown on the members of the Board I That is just what I wanted to arrive at. The Board has not got a leg to stand on going to Government with that plan, was sal/

when the work was completed that the groin might be wanted. Now what argument are you going to give to Government ? MrjChambers said they had ths reason that they were not allowed to carry out the complete work. Mr Townley : Let ns go with clean hands, end say that the schema has broken down ; thst is what it is and nothing else. I am a member ot the Board and oannot give a reason. The Engineer has not recommended it. The Engineer said he had recommended one plan ; the other had been asked for by ths members of the Board. Mr Townley said they had not a report before them from the Engineer giving reasons for the work being carried out, There was nothing said in the report sent to Mr Graham —if there had been it would have prevented him getting anything done at all. When the plan went down they oould depend upon it that it would ba closely looked into, and an inquiry would be made. They started to build a breakwater to be in deep water and were now coming back into the river to spend more money there. If the dredging kept the river open, he did not see why they should spend one shilling in the river, if they ever expected to get out into deep water. Until the Engineer said it was necessary and gave good reasons for it, it was not right for the Board to go on with the wall. Ths Chairman said that in one of his reports a few months back the Engineer said the proposed wall was necessary, but whether he said it or not, he (the Chairman) supposed there was no person sitting there, who did not know it himself. It the Engineer said it was not necessary they would each put their own observations against his opinion. If he had the temerity to say that everything was all right and no damage was going on not one of them would believe him. Mr Bennett said the reason was as plain as the nose on one’s face. The works going on was causing such a wash on the westward ride that it was cutting into ths beach, and bringing the sand into the river. They had also to conserve private property, Ths Chairman said it was petfsaiiy clear if they Continued ths pier a« at present they could do nothing at- all with the river and ths river would get shallower and shallower, and until they bad a harbor they must keep the river open. Mr Chambers said the sand would not follow out beyond a certain depth, The Chairman said it would follow out and be a cause of inconvenience as far as they could go with their money. Mr Chambers’ motion was than put and carried, the dissentients being :— Messrs Townley and Shelton. Mr Clark had to leave during the earlier part of the discus, eiofi.