HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Inangahua Times, Volume VIII, Issue 1272, 18 July 1883, Page 2

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Pyke resumed the debate on the anti-central resolutions. The necessity for some such change was shown by the state of the House last night. When this most important question was being discussed only thirty were present. The rest were at a ball. One was reading a newspaper, another something like a French novel, and a third asleep. The House was no longer a Parliament. It had been degraded to the level of a road board. He held strongly that the police should be under local control. He would be glad to see the Mother country appealed to on the local Government question. For himself, he had never made any reasonable request to Government which had not been granted, but certainly he had not been corrupted, and he did not believe in the charges of corruption which had been made. His own action in 1876 was entirely inconsistent with his present course. The present system was worse than provincialism. He wanted real local - self government, and the counties did not supply it. They were only machines for taxation. They had been robbed of the land fund and of subsidies. The only way to avoid separation was to give au efficient system of local self-government. It had .worked much more, satisfactorily in Hawke's Bay than provincialism ever had. The people were satisfied. All they wanted was a little more power to deal with questions such as the licensing of lands and such subjects. He ridiculed the idea of Canterbury and Otago having the alleged community of interest, as their jealousy of each other was well known. Moss said if the resolutions censured any one it was not the Ministry. It was the Legislature which had desired abolition. Hawke's Bay had done so well without borrowed money it was no wonder it was satisfied with the existing state of things. It would be different when there was no more money for distribution. He would propose an amendment of a more definite character than the resolution, as follows :-- --" That the existing system of central Government has failed to realise the results anticipaied, and that it is expedient to re-establish local Government and local legislatures, with adequate powers to maintain peace and order and good Government within their several bounds ; to raise all revenues for their proper and independent support, and to relieve the General Government and General Legislature I of all matters that are not purely of general concern." Macandrew defended the Grey Government from the charges made by Atkinson in reference to the land fund and other matters. The legislature had authorised the disposal of that vote, and it would have been well for the colony hdd they been carried out, as they would have been had the Grey Government remained in office. As to the colonial finance, it consisted of balances here and balances there, and hocus pocus everywhere. He would be very sorry to return to Provincialism, living on the crumbs from the rich man's table, but even Provincialism as it was would be preferable to Centralism as it is. He would allow the local bodies to borrow for themselves. He would support the resolutions although he thought they did not go far enough. He would like to see insular financial separation, as Driver had proposed last session. He did not regard the question as a party one. He hoped Moss would not complicate and confuse the matter by pressing his amendment. Bryce said that to adopt the policy of giving local bodies unlimited borrowing power would bring ruin on the colony. He had always been an out settler and therefore an anti-provin-Cialist. The abstract resolutions were not a vote of confidence, but if they were earned and Montgomery followed them up by calling on the Government to bnug in a bill, that would of course mean a vote of want of confidence. ±le recalled the grievance of the outchstnets under Provincialism. The resolutions, if given effect to, would destroy real local self-Govern ment by counties, road boards, and boron Hip.

As to separation, he regarded it as impossible owing to our financial relations. He considered Grey's speech as degrading to the hon. member himself, and degrading to the House. Making the serious charges he constantly did against public men would seriously affect the public tone of the colony. Eeferriug to Eusden's book, he pointed out that the calumny was really against the colonists generally rather than on him personally, as Eusden did not know him and could bear no malice towards him. fie reviewed the events treated of by Eusdeu, and defended his conduct at the time and in the manner in which he had characterised Eusden's statement. Hutchinson defended Grey from Bryce's accusations. Our present form of government was neither one thing nor the other, and fully justified the discontent which undoubtedly existed in the countiy. Central Government, if well administered, would, however, be very different from what it was at present. He could not support the resolutions to increase the number of governments, and must therefore vote against the resolutions. FitzGerald commented on the vague and unsatisfactory character of the resolutigns^ anjLy^yplißd to some of the reviewed the state of affairs under the provincial system in Otago, Southland, and Canterbury, as far as the out districts were concerned ; and while he did not contend that the present system was complete, it contained the foundation of all that was required. J. M'Kenzie denied the truth of the accusations made against the provincial system of having been a bad form of centralism. Naturally the proviuces had to extend public works from the provincial centres. The credit for land administration claimed for Rolleston was really due to Donald Eeid and Eobert Stout. He held that wellgrounded discontent existed throughout the country with the present system. If the rabbit nuisance had been left to the local bodies it would have been better dealt with. He supported the resolution. Harris supported the first two resolutions, but would not vote for the third. Shepherd moved the adjournment of the debate, and the House rose at 12.10. The House met at 2.30. Replying to questions, ministers said — A township would be laid out at Orepuke railway station and sufficient reserves will be made in it. Shepherd resumed the debate on Montgomery's resolution. He regretted that the House seemed to be reduced to the position of a debating society. There was nothing political in what they were discussing. He opposed the resolutions at considerable length, but if the third one came to the vote he would move the omission of the words " including public works." Either the counties or the road. boards ought, he thought, to be abolised. The resolutions really meant separation. Watt opposed the resolutions ; but thought both roads boards or counties unnecessry — oue should be done away with. Duncan supported the resolutions, and accused the Minister of Mines of neglecting the goldfields interests, especially in the Waitaki district in regard to water rights. | Wellington, 18. The House resumed at 7.80. Duncau continued the debate, narrating a number of local grievances as evidence of the evil of centralism. He was in favor of insular separation, but would support the resolutions. Ivess said his districts had pronounced against centralism. That system had failed. He was not in favor of reviving provincialism, but thought that the powers of the counties should be largely increased, and the number of counties reduced. He would support the resolutions, but not on any party grounds. Wynn Williams ridiculed the ridiculous and trival local grievances which were being urged as a ground for a serious constutional change. The resolutions had neither head nor tail, nor inside. He was surprised at the audacity of Montgomery in bringing down such resolutions to that House. Canterbury at least would never revive I the farce of provincialism. He charged Holmes with doing more than any man in the colony to injure the prospects of the West Coast railway by the course he was adopting. The idea of Otago, Canterbury, and Westland agreeing under one local government was ridiculous. He strongly condemned Grey's conduct in constantly making serious charges of dishonorable conduct against Ministers. He characterised Eusden's statements about Bryce as infamous, vile and scurrilous, such as the House should resent. Bracken thought the resulutions would soon scour the hearts of people of the colony. Ninetynine out of every hundred men in the colony would condemn the present system of government, which fostered and stimulated local jealousies. He advocated a fedei - al union and several states as the best form of government for New Zealand. Owing to its configuration, the colony would not much longer submit to be governed from Wellington. Hursthouse said there was nothing in the qneston to start with. Nothing had been disclosed in the debate, and it would end in nothing. The subject was long ago worn threadbare. He strongly opposed the resolutions and jondemned the idea of reviving Provincialism, although admitting that everything expected from abolition lad not been realised. If any scheme ;o improve local government or red \M'o :axati(;:i -\vas proposal ho would •.!■.> ' j

1 neither. He protested strongly agai; • | Grey's conduct and speeches in niali i ning honest men in the most shame: - manner without being able to prod v • the slightest proof. He chaßengi • him to prove even one of those charge I If that could be done, he for one w ou i » support Grey to the utmost in lookin . out the perpetrators. He also repud . i ated with scorn the charges of Rusde ' against Bryce. He had himself bee - led into action by Bryce, and was we " acquainted with the whole facts. H - thought there where altogether to i many small local bodies of one kind c L another. The central adroinafcratic • was also capable of great improv ment, l Holmes defended himself from Wi ; liatns's accusations about the Wet j Coast Eailway Deputation. The House divided on the first rcsol i ■ tion, which was lost by 28 to 34, an • the division list of which has bee . printed. Moss's amendment was lost by 19 1; . 38. s O'Callaghan protested against th ; ; waste of the House which had take place discussing resolutions which wer< , never seriously meant. White gave his version of what tool place between the Government andjjh. !teh^rbury/m r erfibers akMfr'Ull «|PWP Coast Eailway.