HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Inangahua Times, Volume IX, Issue 1439, 3 September 1884, Page 2

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Wellington, August 80. On the Premier's motion the House adjourned until Tuesday, at 2.30 p.m. The House resumed at 7.30. Mr^bout, in rising to propose the n^^ifideh^e Said that he declined to follow the action of the Premier last night, who spoko and acted in a manner which he hoped was rare in Parliament. He would do nothing of thia kind. Parliament had gone to the country on Major Atkinson's policy, and also at tf:3 asking of some gentlemen. The q i *;ion put to the country was, shall >■ c have the continuous Ministry or not; he contended this was the issue put to the country, and if it were not, why did the Premier resign. He considered that the representatives of the people would not be doing their duty nnless they pat a stop to the Continuous Ministry, He would not admit that the present Ministry was a new Ministry. Had the present Premier and the Minister of Public Works changed their opinions because they had been out of office for three weeks ? No, we should have the same policy as heretofore. The Ministry was simply a change made out of Major Atkinson's own party. It was the feeling of the country that there should be a change in the Government. The Premier bad with the exception of two years been in office since 1874. Parliamentary Government was such that it necessitated a chango in Government periodically. The reasons of their being ins and outs in England was with the object of having those who run in particular groves and could not get out of them. Similar things were being brought about in New Zealand. The Public Works policy of this colony had broken down ; it had been intended to spend only one million each year for

three years, but this had fallen through, and there was now only £400,000 left for future appropriation. He believed that a. large number of deficiency bills would have to be issued to carry on the Government. There was discontent from Auckland to <tnvercargill at the working of our railways. He did not blame the Minister of Public Works ; but this was a reason why there should be new men occupying the benches. He instanced one or two cases of bad management, and said similar charges could be brought. Local Governmert had also been a matter of discontent through the colony, especially with regard to Charitable Aid and Hospital Aid. These, were not the only departments where mismanagement occurred. He could refer to nrarly every department. There was a change required by the country, and the fact of one or two members resigning from the Ministry and their places being filled by members from the Atkinson party would not satisfy the electors. What the colony wanted was a strong and stable Government, and looking at the Government benches, he thought the occupants of them did not possess that. The Opposition were blamed as gentlemen who were incliued to condemn the present Government without giving them an opportunity of developing a policy, but the position was this — was the Premier likely to change his policy. He could inform the House that he had not. If the House kept this Government in office it would be against the strong feeling of the country. The Premier had not thrown over the platform on which he stood when addressing meetings at Auckland,

Christchurch, Dunedin, Wellington, and Hawea. He appealed to the House to give the Governor another opportunity of obtaining advisers who would enuncia c a new policy. He would like to see members on the benches who had new ideas, and would not carry out the old policy. He would like to see a division come to tonight. He would as far as able facilitate the business of the country ; this was a first consideration, and that of office a secondary one. He would again put it to the House — were they willing to have a Continuous Ministry, of have some new ideas of policy and a new mode of administration. Now was the time for New Zealand to have a better Government than they had in the past. •••-■■

"VYakefield replied, and' said he had .no Wish to obstruct the business, and held that the country would be of opinion thpy had neglected their duty if they had not replied to the member for Dunedin East. He hoped no member would be afraid to speak his opinions on this debate. He denied that the Premier's action last night was of an aggressive nature. He only wished the bon. member for Dunedin East could see him as he did as he (Stout) had given him the impression that ' he was addressing a hostile jury. Evevyoiie who was not influenced by petty prejudices must admit that the Ministry had undergone a great change. Referring to the Continuous Ministry, who was the father of it — why the member for Ohristchurch north (Sir J. Yogel). Mr Wakefield then entered into a statement of the various Ministries which had held the bench for years past. Party politics would often bring on to the Government benches members of a Continuous Ministry. He quite agreed with Mr Stout that members wei*e required to form a Government, bo as express new ideas ; that was why he (Waketield) . was now among the Ministry. Had the late Government gone back for new Members when he was foriuing- a Government, if he had gome back to 1854 for a colleague? and they also took with them members of the Grey Government of 1877. He said the present Government was the youngest Ministry New Zealand ever had. Exception had been taken to this. How could the last speaker explaih-this way. He admitted that ,the present Ministry did not possess the confidence of the people of the country, but could a Government be formed who would possess it. The late Government had not the verdict of the country which was easily seen, when they had a division, only obtaining a third of the House to follow them into the lobby. If the late Premier could place on the bench a Government havnig the verdict of the country he would like to see it and would eive it a hearty support He appeafettto the House to allow the Government to develope a policy. He denied the charge of railway mismanagement which had been brought against the Public Works Department. There was no doubt there was a complete change required in railway administration. He would, if he remained in office take comprehensive measures to place local government and charitable aid on a sound footing. He belived the hon. member was afraid to allow them to bring down a policy, if any other government had been formed they would, he belived, get the same generosity from the Oppositition as this was receiving. The Ministry were quite prepared to take their chance, and if he had his own way the formation of the Ministry would have been under a very different process than this one had been, as he recognised the necessity of having the strongest Ministry. They were quite willing to take defeat at the hands of those sitting opposite ) and with reference to the Property Tax, he was sure many of those ailliedwith the late Government would suppoi*t that Tax though they might vote against the Government. The members who comprised the Grey party in coming to use the iron rule that they would not support any Government of which Sir J. Yogel was a member, really placed the balance of power in the hands of the member for

Auckland City East, He had a great fespect for Sir J. Yogel, and he would like, to see him on the Treasury ben. ches, but to say that no Ministry Bhould exist without that hon gentleman was placing members in a false position. He should be sorry to see the balance of power given to Sir Geoi'ge Grey, and he hoped members would see the urgent necessity for the solution of the present position, which was one never before heard of iv the colony. He believed that the member's of Government were those who could well' take up the administration of the colony. He hoped that when the division was taken, every member would proceed to the lobby in which his conscience guided him.

Sir Julius Yogel was not sorry to see new members on the Treasury Benches. He characterised the last speech as - plausible special pleading. Whatever the Premier's political opinions were he was held throughout the colony with great respect. He believed Governnittrit required more confidence than it now possessed. When he (Yogel) was asked to form one, it was necessary for him to put Government on party lines, and he had to .make conditions so as to form a strong party. After several had undertaken the task of forming one, it came back to the present Premier, and he could not say how the intrigue was carried on. It was known that the Premier had not made a coalition, and if that was so, what was the Government — why purely one formed from Atkinson's party. The present Government was one which had over again and again been warned away by the country. They had been told that the late Government had lived beyond its time, but the high esteem in which the members comprising it were held showed clearly that a change of Government was wished. It was generally thought by the action of the Atkinson Goverment that capital was restrained, and also that enterprise was dead. When he read the speeches of th« Premier which had been delivered throughout the colony, he did not wonder at their being a want of confidence in the Atkinson Government. The present Government having ousted this Government without allowing them to cfevelope their policy, the Atkinson party had no claim to greater courtesy. When at Christchnrch, Dunedin, and also during the elections, the Atkinson Government received its final warning, but yet it would not die. He criticised the speeches made by Atkinson during the late elections, and was utterly astonished at his statement regarding title to propertyits effect being to discourage capitalists from investing in this colony. Say what they might to the contrary, the present Gover iraent was an Atkinson one. He was prepared to say that in the Governor's Speech there was not one line which would not be brought before Parliament in some shane or other before they prorogued, and thai a majority of the House would agree with it The Government was one that would not do justice to the House. There had, when he was in VictnyJa, been a political crisis, but a coalition had been arrived at, and matters had been arranged amicably between the leaders which brought things to a happy condition.

Major Atkinson said that there were several statements made by Yogel which must have made Stout feel very uncomfortable. He denied that entpr prise was dead. It was quite true, that land speculation was dead, and had been for three years, but this was not to be regretted. The chief objection to the Government was that if, was a Continuous Ministry. He did not know what it meant. He referred to the English Parliament, where they would find that gentlemen holding office were in for a much longer period than he had been. Sir J. Yogel, he might say, wns the father of the Continuous Ministry. As he had been in office for seven years, he thought it was a credit to himself to have obtained the respftct of the House for so Ions: a time as he had. There was no doubt the elections went against the Government as then constituted, and also that the mainrity of members were returned on condition that they would turn but Government. This was simply the result of the grain tariff, and was the reason of the Christchurch members being arrayed against them. The country tent gentlemen who were to form a strong Government that was to replace the Ministry who were to be ousted. If the present Government were to be ousted what would they do next ? Of course Stout and Yogel came up to form a Government, and the House declared they did not want them, and now they were attempting to show they did not want him (Atkinson). He had done his best to bring about a coalition, and he had even gone further than a number of his supporters wished him. He wished the country to know this. Up to this afternoon he wished to have a coalition but could not obtain assistance from the opposite side of the House. He thought that the action of the Yogel party was one of revenge. His side of the House were willing to come to a compact if th« motion had been postponed for a day or two, but the Opposition would not do it. With regard to Public Works, it had been said that their policy bad entirely fallen down. There was £600,000 left of the fund, and Dot £400,000 as had been stated by Sir J. Yogel. He held that the whole of the loan had been expended in accordance with the schedule and in the manner which had been desired by the vote of Parliament, Sir Julius Yogel appeared surprised that there was such a small amount left ; the explanation was that the period expires next March. He denied that their policy had fallen down. Sir Julius, said that a laige

amount of taxes could be remitted, but he had not stated how. Why did he (Yogel) when he was on the 'benches make no statement explaining this. He should like to hear him say in what way he would save £250,000. If the vote was against Government he would, be relieved of a most difficult and onerous position. He would not worry them. He believed that this was an attempt to prevent them from developing their policy. He (Atkinson) had had the confidence of the House for five years, and he believed the vote of the House would be in their favour. He asked Members in voting to do what in their minds was best for forming a strong and stable Government.

Adjourned for supper. .On the House resuming, Guinness moved as au amend men t that the debate be adjourned- until Tuesday next. He explained his reason for doing so was to give Government time to bring down their policy. When the Government had brought down their policy, and it did not meat with his views be would he the tirst to follow the late Premier and vote for the no-confidence.

W. F. Buckland said the House was the concentrated essence of scheming and dodging. The result of the elections was that the Atkinson Government should go out but not that the Stout- Vogel party should come in. He would vote with Government. Ho seconded the amendment.

Shrimski followed, and opposed the adjournment. He would like to come to a division at onie.

Menteath said he had a strong feeling of antagonism to the poli ical opinions of the member for Dunedin East, and he coold not see his way to suppoi't his motion. He would vote for the adjournment of the debate.

Ganick would oppose the adjournment as being a further waste of time. He was of opinion that the present oppression in the oolony was traceable to the mal-administration of Atkinson.

Ihaka Hakume favored an adjournment.

Wi Pere regfreted the present position of affairs.

Be van spoke in favor of the no-con-fidence motion, and against the amendment for adjournment.

Mr O'Connor thought it wm a mistake to assume that it was described that members should not debate this matter. Continuing he pointed out the difficulties under which settlers on the West Coast laboured in consequence of the abseuce of roads and bridges. He favored the motion for the adjournment on the ground that an adjournment would enable him and other members to form better views of the capabilities of the Ministry.

Mr M'Avtlmr protested against & brand-new Ministry being turned out of office at once. He thought the application of the turm Continuous Ministry implied a great coiuplitueut to the members of it.

The motion for the adjournment Was then put, and ou a division the result being ay«s, 87 ; noes, 43 ; and loud cries of " que stiou, question *' arose.

j Mr Pyke rose and expressed an opinion that a number of the hon. gentlemen had voted on the amendment from a mistaken idea. What was asked for really was time to enable hon. gentlemen now ou the Treastuy benches to develope a policy. He had no particular affection for either part of the House, but he recognised the necessity fora strong Government. ■ It had been urged that the last Government had not had tim« to formulate their policy, but he contended that they had been allowed time to do so, witli such effect as to alarm the House and frighten the country. He thought the present Government should be allowed an, opportunity to develope their policy fc as much as the previous Ministry had. He approved of the Premier, but dissapproved of the •men he was surrounded by.

Mr Fergus had been a consistent supporter of the Atkinson adrainstration, and he could say that in his district the electors had faith to a certain extent in that administration. They had, however, found fault, and he had been returned to oppose the Atkinson Government. He was relieved at the present time, seeing that they had a new Ministry, and he should support them having a chance to bring down their policy. He characterised the Governor's speech as the most palpable bribery ever known in the history of New Zealand.

Mr Hursthouse said it might be from vanity, or it might be from originality, but he wished to place hia opinion of the situation on record. He pointed out that it was only a few et»ys ago since hon. members weie kept waiting in the lobbies while the hon.. member for Dunedin East was attending to hi? private business •in Dunedin.. He maintained that the interests of the Prime Minister were those of thecolony. One fault urged against tfee Government was that Major Atkinson was at the head of it. At any rate every attempt, reasonable and unreasonable, was made to form a coalition, but the other side had not, wanted to make a coalition. He claimed that Government as at present constituted was a moderate one with originality. Mr Stout, in reply, repudiated any connection of a private nature between him and Sir J.'Vogel." If hon. gentlemen had wanted to know anything about the late Government's proposals re the land tax they should have allowed them to bring down a policy. In regard to the adjournment, he explained that the Jate.Gpj^rmnont hud been allowed only to introduce their speech, because there was no alternative. Why had not the Ministry enunciated th«ir policy when tin: noconfidence motion was proposed? On the original motion being put it

was declared carried by a majority of \ eight. s The following is the division list :— f DIVISION LIST. J Ayes — 48. ( Allwrigbt Morris ] Ballance O'Callaghan , Barron Pearson < Bevan Pyke Bradshaw Keese : Brown Richardson, E. Bnckland, J. C. Samuel Cadoian Seddon Dargaville Shepherd Duncan Shrimski Garrick Steward Gillies Stout Gore Nutter Grey Tairoa Harper T&Ao Holmea Thompson, T. Joyce Tole Jjance Turnbnll Ijarnach Walker Mackenzie, M.J.S. White, W. J. M'Kenzie, J. Wi Pere Montgomery Noes — 35. Atkinson, Levestam Bruce Locke Buchanan Macarthur Buckland, W. F. Moss Conuolly Moat Cowan Menteath Dodson Mitchelson Pitzherbert Newman Fulton O'Conor Origg. Peacock Guinness Richardson, G. F. Hakuene Ross Hatch Rolleston Hirst, H. Russell Hobbs . Thomson, J. W. Hnrsthouse Wakefield Hurst, W. J. Whyte, J. B. Xiake L PAIBB. * Ayes Noes. Yogel Johnston Steward, W. D. Trimble M'Millan Bryce Fisher Wilson Smith Hainlin Coster Ormond Macandrew Beetham Fraser . Fergus