HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Inangahua Times, Volume IX, Issue 1470, 14 November 1884, Page 2

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Wellington, 9. The House resumed at 7.30. Stout, in moving the convention resolutions, regreted he had to do so at such a late stage of the session. After explaining the nature of the resolutions, he said that since the meet ing of the convention in Sydney the British Government had announced a protectorate over New Guinea, and several of the colonies who then agreed to pay £15,000 refused now to contribute more than that amount, and Government did not think themselves warranted in committing this colony to any further expenditure than that already promised. He held that. New Zealand had an enormous interest if it looked to the future in considering how her Pacific islands were to be governed. If they could provide for the Pacific islands being bound together in a common interest they would be doing a great good for their future. He fully agreed with the action taken iv regard to the deportation of criminals to the islands. The idea of a federal council was not a new one, it having been ventilated man}* years ago. He asked tbe House not to do anything to put an end to the .union of the colonies. If they remembered the vastness of the Australian colonies he thought they w..uld con sider well before they held aloof from those colonies. He said that if the resolutions were passed there would be nn interference whatever with the legislation of the Colony. He held that bill did not take away any great legislative power from New Zealand. If the ooiony stood aloof and passed the amendment that had been proposed it would be. taking a fatal step. New Zealand could not afford to stand aloof from Australia, and the closer the colonies were bound to the mother country the better it would bo for them. He thought the only way of

preventing it was by federation ; and if they could settle their own difficulties without an appeal to arms, but by a system of federation, they would be doing good 'work. He then moved the various resolutions. Grey could not agree with a jjreat portion of vjihe Premier's speech, and was in some dqubt whether he should take any part iv the debate, as if it was intended that in their House, when so many members ha I left, the decision of the colony shouhi be given ou such an important matter, Government would lake an improper step. He contended under the circumstances the matter should not proceed further than the question with that ob ject. He referre lat length to the relations existing between the colonie-; aud with the mother country. He Imlieved some such patriotic feeling existed in New Zealand as the Premier attributed to Australia. l The annexa tion of New Guinea was in his opinio a matter of the greatest importance to the colonies, and instead of being nig gardly in their contributions tliey should help the mother country to their utmost. He urged that they should remain free from federation, and clo nothing to weaken their own strength. The only federation they should join in was with the British . resolution to the effect that the confederation of the whole English speakEmpire. He concluded by moving a ing nations into oue great confederation is au object of the highest importance, worthy of great efforts and large sacrifice ; that the outlying portions of the British Empire already respectively federated to some extent with that, empire, and capable of being still more closely nuited to it, shouhi take, no steps for confederation among; t them selves, which would embarrass the* closer union with Great Britain or which may hereafter lender more difficult the confederation of all the English speaking nations. Atkinson agreed "with the Premier, feeling regret that the resolution was not brought up at au earlier period, as consideration of the subject was of more importance than almost any matter brought before them this ■ session. He was glad th«Premi**r had taken such a wide view of the matter. He wanted to see the bond of union [ between the mother country and the colonies drawn closer ; also to see law j and order established in these colonies. He pointed out how \meriea sacrificed one million men and untold treasure in order to maintain the union, and other nations had gone in similar directions. If they were to preserve their liberties it would not be through isolation, but, on the contrary, through federation of some form or other. I He was as much in favor of federal o i j with the British Empire as any man I in the House, but the ouly conclusion he had come to was to make themselves powerful enough to induce the Empire to look at the colonies. If they did not obtain a voice in the. negotiations of the labor traffic they would be. committing a political error. The Premier overlooked the circumstance that the Federal Council could not j legislate for any colony unless it was I first asked for. He looked forward to ; the time when they would not only j have a Universal Customs Law, but I also a universal guarantee for public ' debt. Their whole difficulty was their unsigniflcance, and yet they were of sufficient importance to be? listened to in this matter. He pointed out that France had deliberately laid herself out to obtain possession of the whole ofthe islands between Australia and New Zealand. He thought the people of England would shortly demand that the colonies should pay a fair share for upholding the national honor, as these Islands held that they had a great imperial interest in New Guinea; but no other interest it seemed to him would ever get federation unless by pressure from outside. He feared it would be impossible the bond whi'-h bound them to the mother country could continue much longer as it now stood. It would either have to be drawn closer or cut altogether. The question of distance seemed to him altogther beside the question. In the case of the refusal of the islands to fed«rate, was it likely that in the oase of war New Zealand despatches would be attended to in preference to those of the Federal Council in Australia? It was unreasonable to suppose this would be the case. Australia was not anxious that New Zealand should join them, as there they were actuated by imperial spirit. The effect of nonfederation wuld be that we should have to spend fuormous sums in self-defence, and would lose all voice in the trade of the islands. Hp wished to impress upon the House the necessity for immediate action. If they did not a<j*ree with the resolutions, the work would proceed without them Nations were getting possession of these seas, not for the purpose of settlement, but with ulterior motives, and the result would be a standing menace to the Colony. Voi*al said he agreed with such that had fallen from the member for Egmont and was glad to hear he had dealt with the subject in such a practical form. It was well known the Imperial Government could not be moved in the matter without outside pressure. He thought the amount of contribution was a matter of every little importance as compared with the interest involvad Therewas no doubt New Guinea would become a self-supporting colony. H was in entire . unanimity in regard to the stoppage of convict labor. He did not think the Federal Couucil were in harmony with respect to the conditions of the various colonies. H" could not agree with the member foi Egmont thattheunited representations of all the colonies would have more v,eight in the mother country than the vcicc of a single 'colony. They must

not lese sight of the fact that New South Wales had vir ually withdrawn from the convention, refusing to pay i the amount required ; and it. was quite clear that Queensland would refuse to j come in. It was possible, therefore that the colonies to bo represented would Only be. Victoria and Tas nania. and probably South Australia. He thought it was not advisable th.it New Z --aland should throw herself into th<* .•inns of New South Walesaiiil Victoria, lie believed that Australian Federation would not tend toward.-* tho fed 'ration ofthe Empire. The view of Government was in favor of the.. Empire, but :ie did not favor such federation being eff.cted by the. federation of the colonies. Wakefield said he never;, had been able _ to.:- realise the great iEttportance. of tliis,- subject '.the pebple^-ofvNew '.Zealand [md uot.&s yefcexpi'Pssed any eutJinsiasiii.bvertt.V, He confessed In* Ov>iiid«hevm* U!ller3t:itiii o'.j *ot of federation-. . What advantages were to be derived from it. He believed New Zealand would bo the most populous of all the Australasian •. olouies during the next 50 years, and would lose nothing by remaining as it is. He tilOUght the II in so would do w.-ll not to com it itself to these resolutions. Holmes moved tie- adjournment of the debate for a week. He thought the country should have the op nor ■ . tun it y- ,of reading the speeches just I delivered. j Stout pointed out that the motion for tiie adjournment, meant shelving j the resolutions, and would ask the - House not agree to it, but come to a j decision on the resolution. The motion for the adjournment was ' lost by .25 to 22 I Grey's am, mhl meat was put and lost by 2$ t.O 19. '■-." - .. (Samuej. moved the adjournment of the. debate- < Carried by 25 to 21. Vog'*l 'moved the adjournment of the debate/ VHI Tl- o'clock. \ „' .sahitieli'iv?^t , ed the adiournment for a fortnight^ .j The votes, on a division . were — Ayes 23, Noes 23. The Speak* r i j «aye his casting vote with the aym, I aud the debate was accordingly adjourned till Monday next. A long discussion took place on the motion of adjoU' ntnent of the House, during wiiich Grey said if the Government attempted to push these resolutions th'.'oiijjjh suoh a thin House he would at all huii'Js move a vote of wint of confidence in tiie Government on Monday. T:ie House adjourned at 12.55 a.m. until Monday at 11. J The House met at 11a.m. I Replying to Ross, whether the Government are aware that about two years ago several thousands of papers treating on the cultivation ofthe wittle were circulated and a large quantity of seeds distributed gratuitously throughout New Zealand at the cost. of essrs Michaels, Hallenstein, and Farquhar of Du'iedin, and that bonuses .f £100 for the first 100 tons, and .100 for the second 100 tons, and .£SO for the third 100 tons of wattle bark grown ' in the colony were offered by the- same linn, the bonuses being in addition to the market value of the article ; and whether tin* Government will, during the recess, cause enquiry to be mule iv the various land districts as to what extent, if any, ihe wtHe is now being cultivated in the colony for bark pro ducing purposes. Stout said the Government wei'e aware of the fact, and the matter would be considered during the recess. Some discussion ensued as to the manner in which the Federal Couven- . tion resolutions should be put from ! i the chair, Barron contending that the | whole matter should be postponed till j | next session, on the ground that it , ; would be inexpedient to commit the i | colony to su.-h a serious line of policy j I without sufficient time being allowed to j | go into the subject. I Shi'imski gave notice of amendment j | to postpone the po»tio:i of the resoln- ; tions as to the Federal Council till • next session ;but the Speaker ruled it could not be put at that stage. Grey and Moss desired to speak to the resolutions, but the Speaker said they had already spoken on the general question aud could not speak again. The Speaker eventually put the first question as follows : — That this House agrees generally with the resolutions of the said convention. The House divided, and the reso lution was carried by 36 against 21. The next resolution was then put as follows : — That it approves of the steps taken by the British Government for the establishment of its rule over New Guinea, and hopes that like measures will be taken for a j.rotecrorate t-ver the islands of the Pacific Ocean not under the dominion of any stable Government. Grey asked whether Government intended to pass all the resolutions. Stout said that was for the- House to determine. Grey said that in order that the subject might be fully discussed, he would move the adjournment of the Mouse. He wished to pnt it to (he House that the resolution just, carried I was of so serious a nature that the whole matter should he postponed till | next session. The question ought not. to be disposed of in this hurried | manner at he end of the session. He proceeded to refer to the whole question of federation at some length, which he entirely traversed. He contended that by the adoption of the resolutions they would l> ( . subject to Inws made by the federal council which would be very objectionable. He said the Colonial Treasurer was :argerly interested in pushing on federation, and that too much selfinterest had been exhibited from, tho Government benches during the -•e.ssion. He considered there- was no i jcommou interest, no general question.*

between New Zealand and Australia, The federation of the colonies, he. considered, was to do nothing more than gratify the ambition of a few statesmen who h* ittered each other iii their corri'spo idvnce. He thought their "onsti'.uei.ts should havo a voice in ih-cidi ig i lie resolutions, and he felt convinced tlieir decision would be uitfav. liable. Yogel recognised the distinguished position held by the member for Auckland City East, hut he considered it not only bad taste but unbecoming on his part to make such allusions to himself -as, he was in the habit 6f&i<Sing. Me was continually referring to hia interest in some 200,000 acres in a remote part of Australia; this whole interest represented not more than £1000. . He said it was very extraordinary- and ungenerous to make such a speech as he had delivered, and to completely mis'-epreseitt the opinion of the G"\ ,'rument. He had himself expressed the opinion that federation of tii> Colonies Would stand in the wav of fedestion of the Empire and this he agreed with. Tl.O m-mber to. City E*st had said th i', Gov ern meijt were committed in a variety of ways to contributing toward the cost of annexing New Guinea. As regards the Federal Council question he held a very different opinion. Th* Government wished the House to give their opinion on that subject. Fisher said he opposed the resolution consistently. He said if the Government felt themselves in an awkward position about the resolutions they had only themselves to blame for allowing the resolutions to float about on the Order Paper for three weeks. Ho well remembered during the late elections when the federation question was mentioned it was received with marked indifference. He quoted from a speech of Vogel's iv Australia when i he said that federation was the greatest piece of humbug that had been submitted to the Australian Colonies, and he considered that Yogel in his speech of Saturday night t ld more completely I against the resolutions than in their favor. He thought it would be much bett r if the resolutions were allowed to stand over till next session of Parli:ime it, as the House was not at this stage of the session in a position to vote foi them. Stout said that one point had been entirely omitted by the member for Auckland City East. The first resoj lution proposed was actually almost word for word with a report which j that how. gentleman had brought up and advocated last session. The | resolutions which were proposed now ; as those which were to degrade Now Zealand wen* almost word for word with that report. Further, in his speeches last year, Grey had -varmly advocated federation not only of tli3 co.'onies but of the whole of the islands of the Pacific. He could not imagine that the hon. gentleman waß now opposing them merely b< cause he had not, brought the.m forward himself ; he gave him credit for higher motives th iv that. Ho said the reason he pushed forward the. matter was because he felt so strongly as to the necessity fur fie resolution •»; he hadobjectioa to acc.pt Shnmski's amendment i