PARLIAMENT.

Manawatu Standard, Volume XLIX, Issue 243, 12 September 1929, Page 4

PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

PRIVATE MEMBERS’ DAY.

Yesterday was private mombors’ day in tbo House of Representatives. In the afternoon Ministers replied to questions and reports were discussed. The evening was mainly devoted to a discussion on unemployment.

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. REPLIES TO QUESTIONS. Per Press Association. WELLINGTON, Sept. 11. The House of Representatives mot at 2.30 p.m. .The wheat committee, on the motion of Mr C. A. Wilkinson, was given leave to meet during the sitting of tho House. The chairman stated that it was hoped to take the evidence of six witnesses and enable them to return south to-night. Mr H. E. Holland (Puller) said he had no desire to detain witnesses, but lie would like to point out that it was not unite fair to those members of the House who were also members of the committee that it should meet while the House was in session. He trusted that there would lie no further development in the tendency for committees to ask leave to meet during sittings of Parliament. Mr T. AV. McDonald reported that tho public petitions committee recommended that tho hearing of the Vailo (Tatipo' railway) petition should bo open to the Press. The House thereupon adopted the recommendation. Mr AV. L. Martin (Raglan) asked the Minister of Agriculture whether it was the intention of the Government to extend the term of office of the present Director-General of Agriculture for a further period of live years and, if so, would ho, before taking that step, give serious consideration to tho request of the fanners’ organisations and others and appoint a competent bacteriologist and pathologist as head of the department? Hon. G. W. Forbes replied that tho Government had not considered the question raised. POWER OF DISMISSAL.

Replying to Mr AV. E. Barnard (Napier), Hon. T. M. AVilford (Minister of Justice) stated: “Like all other servants of the Crown, members of the police force are engaged on terms that their services may be dispensed with at the pleasure of tho Crown. Members of the police force have security in employment and rank, and their superannuation rights are safeguarded until they reach the statutory retiring age of superannuation, provided they maintain their efficiency and are not guilty of misconduct meriting a reduction in rank, discharge or dismissal, or are not otherwise unfit to remain in the force. It is necessary, in the public interests and for the preservation of tho efficiency and honour of the force, to retain the powers conferred by the-Po-lice Force Act, 1913, to dispense with the services of members of tho service for reasons other than misconduct; for example, mental unsoundness, ill-health, physical unfitness, incompetence, or other circumstances which would render further continuance of tho oflicial’s services inconsistent with the efficiency and reputation of the police force. These powers are common to all British polico forces.”

AUSTRALIAN RAISINS. Mr Barnard suggested that some preference should be given to sultana raisins imported from Australia over those imported from California.

Hon. AV. B. Taverner (Minister of Customs) replied tht tho present position was that raisins, except lor primage, were free of duty, whether produced in British or foreign countries. Tho only way to give preference to Australia would bo to impose a duty on raisins grown in other countries. This question was bound up with tho general question of tariff reciprocity between Australia and New Zealand, and could only bo gone into when negotiations were taking place, between the respective Governments. PETROL RAIL CARS.

Air J. AV. Atunro (Dunedin North) asked whether inquiries had been made into the possibilities of petrol rail cars as an economical method of mooting motor bus competition on suburban and branch lines.

Hon. AV. B. Taverner replied that tho whole quostion of the use of rail cars of various types and their suitability for our conditions was now under investigation. A ’ competent officer was being sent abroad to collect information in regard to theso cars. POSTAL DEPARTMENT EMPLOYEE'S

Hon. J. B. Donald, replying to Mr J. O’Brien (Westland) stated that there was no proposal to dispense with the services or anything like 200 workmen in the Post and Telegraph Department. For months past, a vigorous policy of telegraph and telephone construction had been pursued right throughout the Dominion. As a eonsequence, the department was well ahead with its programme of reconstruction and extension works, the number of applicants awaiting telephone connection having been reduced to 900, which was a lesser number than were usually connected in one month. In order to improve the unemployment situation, every opportunity was being taken of pushing forward with works that ordinarily would have waited until the summer season. At present there were employed on telegraph and telephone work's 812 temporary workmen. Hon. P. A. de la Perrelle, replying to Mr It. A. Wright, stated that fur-

ther legislation wns unnecessary to regulate the censorship of cinematograph posters. Regulations to deal with the matter were at prosont under consideration. SECONDARY INDUSTRIES.

In his reply to a question submitted by Mr J. S. Fletcher, Hon. J. G. Cobbe stated that the question of developing secondary industries had already received consideration. It would ho impossible foi a select committee thoroughly to explore all tho possibilities in the comparatively short time available. Tbo Government would consider holding an investigation during the recess. Hon. J. G. Cobbe informed Mr G. C. Black (Motueka) that tho Industries and Commerce Department v as in close touch with tho operations of Onakaka Iron Company and was rendering every possible assistance in marketing its products. CANCER RESEARCH. Hon. A. J. Stallworthy, replying to Mr O’Brien, stated that an endeavour had already been made to bring about a measure of co-ordination between Great Britain and New Zealand in the matter of cancer research. There had recently been formed in New Zealand a branch of the British Empire cancer campaign and this would no doubt lead to further <v)-oi>cration. Tho Government consider it hotter to co-ordinate tho existing research efforts rather than centralise the whole of the research work in a central international laboratory, as had been proposed. PRISONS BOARD’S REPORT. In replying to a brief discussion on tbe annual report of Prisons Board, Hon. T. M. AVilford stated that it was the aim of the department and tho magistrates throughout the country not to send a man to gaol for the first offence if there was any other jjossihle course, and. to impose a short, sharp sentence for a second offence. The figures in the rejxirt indicating the success of the probation system did not include cases in which men were convicted and discharged, or convicted and ordered to come up for sentence if called upon. Criminal statistics were in one respect misleading, Mr AVilford continued. One prisoner might he convicted a dozen times in a year, and in tho report, which merely stated the number of convictions, it might appear that a dozen different individuals hud been convicted. Labour members: The method should be altered. Mr AVilford agreed. He added that, in his opinion, there should be more after-care societies to help to reinstate prisoners in life on their release from gaol. REPORT ON POLICE FORCE. The annual report on the police force of tho Dominion was next discussed. Mr Barnard urged that, as tho Minister’s approval was necessary in the case of tho dismissal of a sergeant, there should ho a similar safeguard in the case of a constable. He claimed tliat the present Act vested too much power in the Commissioner, as under Section 9 it was possible for that officer to dismiss a constable (without right of appeal) and to doprive him of all superannuation benefits. Sir George Hunter (AVaipawa) asked whether officers undertaking arduous point duty in cities were granted extra payment. Mr D. G. Sullivan (Avon) expressed surprise at tho discrepancy between tho number of crimes reported and the number oF actual arrests. He referred particularly to tho recent eases of incendiarism in Christchurch. Ho believed that the police forco was quite efficient, but fie asked if it was provided with suitablo transport and other facilities to aid in the detection of crime. He criticised the salaries paid to some members of the force and asked whether this had any hearing on the numlier of arrests. Tho ingenuity and cleverness of tho criminals of to-day was the reason .which Mr AVright assigned for tho disI parity between tho number of offences and the number of arrests. Despite the precautions of tho department, he said, criminals from overseas were finding their way into the country by means of various ruses, such as false names. Mr I AVright also entered a plea for a trial of women police and urged that at least one should be appointed as an experiment. i Mr M. J. Savage (Auckland AA’est) asked what was tho explanation of the frequency of transfers in the police force. ~, , ■ Rt. Hon. .T. G. Coates suggested that •no restrictions should be imposed on tho participation of members of the force in healthy sports. I MORE POLICE AVANTED.

Hon. T. M. Wilford, replying, stated that, in his opinion, there were not enough policemen. Every session of Parliament created more obligations on the force by the passing of new legislation. There had been comment on the fact that there had been many informations in relation to maintenance and separation orders. This, lie said, was an aftermath of tho war, and it emphasised the truth of the old adage : “Marry in haste, repent at leisure. The Arms Act alone, Mr Wilford continued, was responsible for a large

amount .of work for tho police .force and lie hoped that legislation which it wns proposed to introduce would afford relief in this direction. Replying to Mr Barnard, Mr AAhlford said that the Minister had power to dismiss the Commissioner, a superintendent, inspector or sub-inspector, and these officers had no right of appeal. Mr AVilford ndded that, in ordinary eases, a constable had . the right of appeal. The number of dismissals under clause Owns very few. A bill had been drafted to grant superannuation to members of the force after 85 years service, and lie hoped it would be possible to get It through this session. In regard to extra jinyment for men on point ( duty, ho said that the difficulty in this respect was the fact that the men wore on duty only one hour nt a timo. Tho reason for the disparity between the numlier of informations and arrestß wns that pooplo who reported an offence were so frequently unable to identify nny article. As to tho point raised by Mr Centos, ho stated that there was nothing to prevent policemen onjoying athletic activities, and ho referred to the number of cases in which members of tho forco had gained prominence. Tho department, of course, could not he oxpoctcd to agree to men travelling with representative teams, if they wore thereby kept nway from where they were required for any length of time. SHOPS AND OFFICES BILL.

AA’hen tho House resumed at 7.1}0 tho Shops and Offices Amendment Bill (Mr AlcJKeen) was read a second time pro forma and referred to tho labour bills committee. DEBT ABOLITION BILL.

In moving the second reading of the Imprisonment for Debt Abolition Amendment Bill, Mr H. G. R. Mason (Auckland Suburbs) said it was designed to amend the Imprisonment for Debt Limitation Act. It did not provide for the abolition of imprisonment for debt in cases in which fraud or a similar misdemeanour was involved. Under the present conditions the law did not demand imprisonment in cases in which the debt exceeded £3O and a man could file in bankruptcy. This seemed to imply class distinction. Any person sufficiently well pluced to he able to obtain credit for £3O was not liable to the same treatment as people in poorer circumstances. Hon. T. M. AVilford said that, il the principle on which the amendment was brought forward was merely to amend the Act insofar as it operated to the detriment of poor people, an order for imprisonment could only be made in cases in which a man had been proved to have had the ability and means with which to pay"the debt, apart from what he required to support himself and his family. If that section of the Act were abolished, what power would there he to compel a man to pay his hoard, his tradesmen s bills or the maintenance of a wife from whom he was separated, even if he had the means? Air Wiliord suggested that the Bill should he referred to the statutes revision committee. Hon. AV. Downie Stewart (Dunedin West) said that if the bill wore passed, there would he a danger that poorer people would not bo able to obtain credit at all. The effect would probably be the reverse of what Mr Mason desired. The terms of the Bankruptcy Act prevented any existence of class distinction. He agreed with the suggestion to refer tho bill to the statutes revision committee. Mr Mason said that lie would be prepared to adopt Mr AVilford s suggestion. Ho pointed out that, under the present law, tho question of whether a man had the ability and means to pay had to he decided by magistrates, and magistrates being human, were capable of making mistakes and acting with undue harshness. The bill was then read a second time and referred to the statutes revision committee.

UNEMPLOYED AVORKERS BILL, i Tho Unemployed AVorkers Bill was ruled out of order on the ground that it involved an appropriation, but i\lr Fraser (Wellington Central) was given permission to proceed with the second reading on the understanding that the measure was not taken, any furtliei. Air Fraser thanked the House lor providing tho opportunity to discuss unemployment in a wider sense than would have been possible in the course of tho second reading of Ills Unemployed AVorkers Bill (No. 2). lie said that the extent to which unemployment was increasing was alarming and emphasised the duty of Parliament to address itself to the problem, the need for some form of unemployment insurance was clear, and the Labour 1 arty had been hoping that the Government would have brought forward legislation providing for this social service. It still hoped that the Government would do something in tho matter. Air I'iasei claimed that the official figures '" regard to unemployment did not reveal one-half of the number of people out of work in the country. Unemployment was not a passing phase; H was a ‘chronic evil. Formerly, it was season-, able, but now we had it, m some ionn or other, all the year round. It was such a serious problem that the Labour Party was prepared to help any party that would produce some solution, ft was as anxious to help to pass some legislation on the basis of the scheme embodied in the hill as it had been to get its own bill through. AIINISTER'S STATEMENT.

Hon. G. W. Forbes said that, in dealing with unemployment insurance, it was necessary to ensure that any stops that were taken were sound. 111-considered legislation might result in a setback to tho prospects, of the scheme. ’J ho Government intended to deal with the problem iri the recess and it was determined to put an Act Oil the Statute Book. Unemployment insurance was long overdue in this country, and it was important that when a mensuro was brought before tho House next session it should bo so framed that it would ensure tho cooperation of all parties. . lie was.satisfied that, the members in opposition were in sympathy with tho principle involved. . , , . Mr W. D. Lysnar (Gisborne) stated that ho had always favoured an un-

MR. FLETCHER’S THREAT

employment insurance scheme: . It had been the illness of the ex-Minister of Labour that hud prevented the introduction of .legislation during the Reform Administration. He thought that the insurance should cover not only unemployment; but sickness and invalidity as well: Mr it. Semple (Wellington East) appealed to the Government to take up the measure to improve it. if It could and to put it through this session:

Mr J: S: Fletcher (Grey Lynn) said that he Was in favour of, the till and he was in favour of it being put through this session. He believed that tiie unemployed problem could b© solved, hud he advocated a big loading sclieme, He did not believe that a Land sclieme could be put into operation sufficiently quickly to absorb tno men. Ho appealed to the Government to adopt an unemployment ins urn n..e scheme ns a meuns of meeting the immediate needs of the situation.

Mr Flotchor went on to criticise tho Ministerial roply to his question relating to the development of secondary industries and conoludod: “f am going to stand by my pledges to tho people of Grey Lynn; I said that I was coming boro to got things done if they wore possible. Is it to bo taken that, becauso it is a big job tho Government is not going to tacklo it. If the reply to my question is not satisfactory I’ll walk across tho floor of tho House to-night.”

CO-ORDINATION OF RESOURCES. Mr A. Mi Samuel iThames) stated that the time had conic for the coordination of all our resources. If it were not possiblo to lind work for everybody, we should provide unemployment insurance. Ho was satisliod that it would eventually bo possiblo in such a country as New Zealand to absorb all tho labour available and thereby remove the need lor an insurance scheme.

Mr W. E. Parry (Auckland Central) stated that members 'of the House were determined that more should be done in relation to unemployment. The problem should not be shelved any longer. The discontent was not confined to the Labour Party, but existed in the United Party ranks. He trusted that the Government would take heed of to-night’s outburst on the part of one of its own members. 'The hesitancy of the Government was regrettable in view of tho united support of the House which was assured for such a measure as unemployment insurance. Rev. C. Carr (Timnru) also appealed for immediate action by the Government.

Mr Barnard (Napier) said that there was no excuse for the Government, after hearing the speeches of Messrs Fletcher and Samuel, to delay the measure any longer. These speeches had provided ample evidence of cooperation. So far as ho was concerned, ho did not care to remain in the House and allow things to continue as at present. Members were becoming impatient, and if the Government did not do something it might find itself without support of some who had given their support in the past. BUDGET PROPOSALS.

Mr W. A. Bodkin (Central Otago) expressed the opinion that, if the legislation forecast in tho Budget were placed on tho Statute Book, it would do much to restore economic stability. The Government would then he in a sounder position to undertake the problem of unemployment insurance. Mr H. E. Holland (Buller) said that if the legislation embodying unemployment insurance were not introduced till next session it could not operato for another year, and nearly a whole Parliament would have elapsed before this undertaking could be put into effect. He hoped tho Government would not persist in saying that this matter must stand over till next session.

The bilr was read tho second time and then ruled out of order.

Hon. G. AV. Forbes said that the Government had no objection to tho

The House rose at 10.30 p.m

bill going io the iabour bills committee; , i Rt: Hon. J. G. Coates suggested that the Government could take the bill up ns a Government measure, and refer it to the labour hills committee:

The Speaker said that the Government would not be in order in adopting such a course. The bill could only be referred to the labour bills committee by the unanimous wish of tho House: In such a ease the House could override its own standing orders. On tho motion of Hon. T. M. \Vilford the bill was referred to tho labour bills committee.