PROVINCIAL COUNCIL

Otago Daily Times, Issue 298, 3 December 1862, Page 5

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL

TUESDAY, December 2nd. The Speaker t^ok the chair shortly after four o'clock ; ml he opened the business with the usual piayer. PETITION. Mr WA LKER presented a petition from settlers in the 'Portobello district, complaining that their road requirements had nob met with proper consideration ; nnd he remarked that they seemed to havo made out a ca.se of considerable hardship and grievance. PANAMA MAIL SERVICE. Mr WALKER gave notice tiiat he would at the next.sitting atfc the Government what liad been done in refe.'enca to a Panama Mail Service ; whnt course it was intended to adopt with respect thereto; a*s«l also whether they would lay on the table copies ot any coirespondence on the subject. I.'OTICES OF MOTION. The PROVINCIAL SOLICITOR to move at the next sitting, the second reading, of the Licensed Carriage BiJ, Auctioneers' BAI, Pawnbrokers' Bill, and Hawkers Bill. The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY to raove on Thuw'ay, that the Council proceed to tho appoiutment of a Dignity Auditor, in the room of Mr lirlam, deceased. Mr WALK Tilt to move at tho. next sitting that an address bo presented to I is Honor the Superinle.itlent for copies of correspondence with the agents, Mey;is Crawford and Auld, during Uie last five years. Mr HARDY to raove on Thursday, that an address be prese ited to the Superintendent for a .statement of the quantity of surveyed lands in each of the several hundreds. Mr CJfLLIHS to move at Ihe nextsifting, that a select coinniitke be appointed to inquire into the working of tlie Survey and Provincial Engineer's and Heads department; such committee to consist cf Messrs Dick, Patert-on, Todd, Steel, and the mover; to it port upon I'Viday week. Mr WALK.HR to move at the next sitting that the Portobcllo petition be considem.l. Tin: PETITION I'llOM TIIKMOIiYNEUX DISTRICT. On the motion of Mr OSWIN, the petition presented by him m Monday from settlers in the Molyncux ;md adjoining districts, was ordered to be .printed. IWNKDTN BUILDING HILT,. ThoPilOYlNC] AL vSoLICI 10 It moved the second reading cf tlii.s bill. It would be remembered that a bill of this nature was ii.troduccd last fcssiou, but that it v/a-J not comprehensive enon<;l-. It hud been ■endf avorcd by this bill to moot all the requirements Wore propped 11530:1 the attention of the Council; and It wan t-> be hoped that when passed it would be foithd to be one of great utility to the city. Mr K.ILGOUII seconded the motion, which was agreed to. '■'i'hft PROVINCIAL SOLICITOR moved that the bill be referred to a selfct committee, consisting1 ■of Messrs Kilgour, Hardy, Iloworth, Taylor, and the mover; with power to call before tlieru skilled persons to give evidence, and to report. JLJy thta course, the J.'niise wou'd Lc aide to go into Committee upon th.j bill m >ie siatisiiictovily than if thay v/eva to proceed ■to adopt that aonvsc at oikc. So mo of the gentlemen named on tho Committee possessed practical kuowledpe on the measure; and the honors ble and learned member for the Central District (Mr Iloworth) having pie; nred the former bill, mu'-t bo quite alive to the (.xi^onci !;of the case, so that it was to be hoped, notwithstanding his pressing business avocations, he would be able to devote some time to the duties of the Committee. Mi- KILGOUR seconded the motion. Mr JIOWORTH hoped his lvune would be omitted, lie should be unable to attend the Committee; and if that were not so, his assistance would hardly be of value, seeing that the Bill he prepared was dissimilar in principle to tho present one. Mr HARDY moved to subbtitat<! the name of Mr Walker for that of Mr J. Jo worth. Mr TA YLFOIt seconded the amendment, which was agreed to, as wasalio the motion as amended. ELKC'THIC TETjEGRAI'IT IJIT.L. The PKOViNUIAL SOLICITOR moved the second reading of this bill. It was, ho s;ud, a general measure, applicable not only to the existing line 1 etween Dunedin and Poit Chalmers, but to any other that m'ght be constructed in the Province. Honorable jnembcr.s would ba aware that it wai intended to estabJish electric, communication throughout the island ; .and it might be necessary, in the event of the •cvnteinp'.iited arrangements being entered into with Ihe Genera! Gi.vori.inon*', to come to the Council ivilh a measure specially applicable to that case; but to lefer to the matter in this bill would be anticipating arrangements which were quite in embryo. The bill would i:rt afc all interfere with any special iirr«V'gcrm-nts that might become necessary.

The biil was read a second time • and the Honse weat into Committee.

Th'-re was a good deal of discussion on the form of the 3.1 Clause, v hich it was said gave power to enter upon lands, cut limber, &<\ while there was nowhere an ab.-'olute ie;[uirement that compensation should be given. Tho discussion was renewed on the 6th Clause; the ohj- ctora including Messrs Gillies, Walker, a id Hownith.

Tho PROVINCIAL SOLICITOR sp.iil that there waa no desire 1o give any unusual or improper powers; and tin; (ith Clnu-e provided that there should be cjmpen.vation for " any loss or damage," consequent upon proceedings umiev the Bill. If not satisfied with the amount offered, the aggrieved party could go into Court: but there was no objection to insert a •irovision for arbitration.

Ulfcin stely, the clause wa? passed over, with the under.-tending that it should be re-cast. The other clauses were agreed to. The 11...u5e resumed ; and the CHAIRMAN icporfei! progyfrss and oblaiacd leave to sita^tinto day, when thf. biii will be re-committed. HOSPITALS BILL.

The PROVINCIAL SOLICITOR moved the second reading of "A Bill to provide for the management of the affairs of Hospitals, and to enable the

managing committees thereof to sue and be sued ;'' the preamble bcincr —" Whereas it is expedient to enecmrogc the establishment of hospitals in those parts of the province of Ota'j;o, where they may be required, to be maintained partly by private contributiojs and partly by aid from the public funds, and to remove difficulties that may arise in the management of the affairs of such institutions." He .said that the first object of the Bill was to vast the property of Hospitals in the Superintendent. They would, very likely, for some time, have to be greatly supportel by the Government; and independently of that fact, it would be well to have tiie property so vested. The Bill did not propose in any way to interfere with the management of such an institution by the subscribers ; but provision was made hs to the appointment of a treasurer, because it yv is meant to give him powiv to sue anl be sued on I) haU'ot the Hospital. In order that there might be m dubiety as to the person having that' title, rules were 1«M down as to the mode of his election, and it was provided that the electors should be subscribers of not lt-s.s than £ I per annum. In all other m.pe3ts, including the I'pp'.intment of medical officers, tho subcilx rs would havo the fullest powers of management. The Ordinance was extended to any benevolent institution for the reception and velie' of sick, infirm, and poor perj-ons. The object of the Ordinance was undoubtedly a most laudable one; and lie hoped the IJouse would unanimously concur in passing it. Mr KILGOUR seconded the motion, which was agreed to. The House went into Committee, and the various clauses were agreed to without discussion. Upon the House resuming-, the PROVINCIAL SOLICITOR gave notice for the third reading of the Bill on Tiuir.-rday. LICENSED THEATRES BILL. The PROVI.VCIAL SOLICITOR moved the second reaiing of "A Bill for regulating places of Public Exhibition and Entertainment." Any necessary explanation could be given in Committee. Mr KILGOUR reeendeti the motion. Mr UOWOHTH did not olject to theatres being lkense.l, but he thought the scope of this lull was far too extensive, i lrncst every class of theatrical entertainment wns specified in the bill, many of which, being perfect'y harmless, were carried on in England in a strolling manner fromtown to town, UTid&r the sanction of the magistrates of the district. According to this Hill, unless there was a house or place specially licensed by the Superintendent, there could be no entertainment of any kind whatever, in any part of the Province. He quite agreed that improper exhibitions should not be allowed j but acts of horsemanship or tumbling weie not so, and were allowed without license in England. The San Francisco, or any other minstrels, would be unable, under the Act, to perform in a barn—as he had known a concert given, at Green Island; and . a'together the Act was too restrictive, as it was to te app'ied to the whole Province. The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY said that the honorable member's objection not going to the principle of the bill, it should be urged when the House was in c.mmit'e?. MrHOWOKTH concurred.

TJe Him 8* went into Committee. Clause 1 was as follows : " From and afttr the passing of this Ordinance*if any person or persons shall act represent or perform or cause to be acted represented or performed for lure gain or reward any interlude tragedy opera comedy otngi play farce bu'letta melodrama pantomme or any stage dancing1 tumbling or horsemanship or any other entertainment of the s-*asre whatsoever to which admission shall or may be procured by payment of money or by tickets < V by any other mcaii3 token or consideration as the price hire or rent of admission; or if any jei-son or persons sha: l take or receive or cause to bo tiken or received a>iy money goods or valuable thiii^ whatsoever by way of rent fee or reward for the use or hire of any house room building garden or place wherein any such entertainments of ihe st-ise as aforesaid shall be acted represented performed or exhibited or being the owner or occupier thereof shall knowingly permit or suiter the same to ha so used and applied every such parson shall in case thr-fp'ace wherein such entertainraeuts shall be acted rep ■••■sen ted performed or exhibited 'be without the wri tsn authority or licence of the said Superintendent upon being lawfu ly convicted forfeit and pay for e^ery fuch offence, any sum not exceeding Fifty pounds." The PROVINOIAL SOLICITOR, in moving that it stand part of the Bill, said he understood that it had not been unusual to endeavor to get the better of the British Act, by giving a ticket of admission, not for the play professedly, but as for the purchase of some article. He ther-fore proposed after the words " money or by tickets," to insert, " or by the purchase of any article as a condition of admission."

The amendment v.'as agi-e2<l to

Mr HOWOIU'H movsd to introduce, near the beginuingof the clause, sifter the word " person*," the words, "in the city of Dunedin, or m any other place, to which the operation.of the Act may be extended by proclamation of the Superintendent." The ainendrner.t was agreed to. Mr TAYLER would no siill further. If the public press, and the morals of thy people, wpre not sufficient to control these entertainments, lpgfclation would be u.-tlcsß'. He objected to having the Act extended to Port Chalmers. Occasionally, a few men a-rived there, front Melbourne or elsewhere, who jvere desirous to give an entertainment lor two or three evenings, in ord'.r to raise the means of pursuing thc-ir journey into the country ; and he did not see that they ought to be prevented doing so, unless in n licensed fiouse or place.

The PROVINCIAL SOLICITOR thought the amendment effected by the honorable member (Mr Howorth) was a very unhappy one. If there was a reason for prohibiting eutertaiumenls except in licensed places within the city of Duncdiri, there was quite as good a reason for the prohibition iv Port Chalmer.? and elsewhere, if not even more cogent reasons. In the country, a play of an obscene nature might be acted, and the injury was done before the remdy could be applied.. In Ounedin, as he understood, objectionable plays had been presented, but they were a f. once censured by the Press; in the country, there could be no such check.

Mr HARDY did not believe that in the country districts, any man who presented an indecent or immoral pay, would find his doing so to pay him. He should be very sorry if in largs districts like Tuapeka and the Dunstan, no two men were to be allowed to play or racito a scene from Shakspere, unless in a license'l place.

Air HOWORTH contended that although it might be riulit, when a place was sufficiently settled to support a permanent theatre, that theatre should be licensed, yet it certainly was not litrht that an exhibition of horsemanship or tumbling should not be permitted in the country, with the consent of the magistrates. The clause, as amended, was agreed to. Clause 2 had the catch words, " unlicensed places for such entertainments to be deemed, disordtrly," was .cond' nined by Mr Howorlh and other speakers. The PROVINCIAL SOLICITOR admitted that the clause was a. doubtful one. He rou'd withdraw it, and move the insertion of the fo'lowing.— *'In every case in which tiny stage play or other enterf ahini.-nt of the stage as hereinbefore mentioned, shaH ba acted or represented in any house, room, building1, garden, or place wherein any spirituous or iernu-nttd liquors shall be sold, every actor therein shall be deemed to he acting for hire."

This was also objected to by Mr HOWORTH and other honorable members.

The PROVINCIAL SOLICITOR said lie considereJ that the clause would be a benefit to respectable theatres. It certainly was not aimed against them, but against objectionable minor theatres and analogous places. The clause was adopted.

The PIIOVINCIAL SOLICITOR said that in the bill as drawn, there was no provision for a license fee. He would move as Clause 3, "That the fee for such license shall he per month, to be paid to the Provincial Treasurer, for the public use of the Province. Every such license shall be issued yearly by the Provincial l\easmvr, on the authority of the Superintendent.

The Clause was agreed to; and the blank was filled with " L5 "

Claitse 7, providedas the "Penalty for permitting disorderly conduct, and persons of bad character to assemble in Theatres/ any sum not exceeding L2O, and in the discretion of the convicting justices, the forfeiture of ibo license.

Tie PROVINCIAL SOLICITOR proposed to alter the latter part, to the effect that the license might be suspended for such time as the magistrates thought propi-v, or be forfeits I. Mr HO WORTH objected to Ihe alteration, and. prpnernlly to magistrates having anything to ilo with a'tjudica'ing upon the license. He* would have that lelt t > the t'upeiintendent, by whom the license was granted. Mr HARDY supported the object"on; and there was a Rood deal of discussion. Mr CARGILL was satisfied that the Superintendent could not prop rly carry out, and ought not to be asked to undertake, pny such functions. It would prevent irnraediat-j action in up-country districts; and would in fact render this part of the Ordinance a nullity Mr GILLIES opposed the alteration. The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY tlnught the alteration would be unjust and improper. The alministration of justice belonged to the magistrates, not to the provincial authorities ; and after the magistrates had sat, upon a case, to leave it for further action by the Superintendent and his Council, seemed to be departing from the whole course of law in this colony

Mr HOWORTH said that the Superintendent and Council and had used the powsv of suspending or'refusing licenses for selling; wine, beer. &c, in cases of misconduct ; aad what he had suggested was an analogous eve. The .PROVINCIAL SOLlClTOltproteated against the; mixing together of the judicial and executive functions

Mr HOWOIITH would move as an amendment to strike out so much of the clause as referred to sus-

lending or forfeiting the license. A heavy fine, with the prospect of refusvl of the renewal of the license, would be sufficient in the way of penalty. The amendment was sanondecl, but was negatived without n division; and the clause, as modified, by the Provincial Solicitor wa* agreed to. Clause 8 had for catch-words "officers and constables of police on duty to have free access." MvHARD> obtainel the insertion of the word " knowingly" bafore '' refuse." The PROVINCIAL SOLICITOR moved the following new clause as the 9th : — " It shall be lawful for the Superintendent to order that any thenti'o shall he closed on such public occasions as to him shall seem fit; and while any license shall be suspended, or any such order shall he in force, the theatre to which the same applies shall not be entitled fo the privilege of any license, but shall be deemed an unlicensed house." Mr HARDY said that the object of tins clause seemed like that of much of the legislation thi* session, to be to tie up the hands of the people and to tike away their freedom as much as possible. Whence came this new clause 1 The Bill, as drawn, was no doubt copied from an Act iii force in some part of'the world ; but it was to be'presumed;, that this clause was not in that Act. There must be some special reason fcr introducing the clause; and he must ask what that reason was. Mr WALK ER woul I decidedly oppose the clause. The PROVINCIAL SOLICITOR said that the clause was taken from a recent Act of the Imperial Parliament. Occasions might arise, as every one must see, on which it would be desirable that the theatres should be closed. Mr WALKER said that if a license was granted, so as to bring theatres under surveillance, and they wete properly conducted, no one ought to have power to close them when he thought fit. Mr CARHILL thought the power was a proper one ; and aftPr the assurance given by the Provincial Solicitor, he thought it dugnt not to be objected 10. Mr M*MASTl£lt objected to it, because a bigoted Superintendent might cause much mischief and illfeeling under the clause and there was no guai'&ntje against such a state of things hereafter. The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY said that, granting'that there might be a bigoted Superintendent, the power was to be exercised with the advice and consent of the Executive, and it was not likely tl at they would all be bigots at the same time. Mr HO WORT fl was understood to avgue that the c'ai S3 might be made a weapon of offence to different rel'g ous sects. He claimed that the Council should be informed what was really meant. Mr REYNOLDS believed it was intended by the clause to give the power to close theatres in Presbyterian fast days; nt least that that was one of the objects (Hear, hear.) He thought it only right that that should be stated before the Council came to a vofe. He was somewhat in favor of it, because he believed that a large proportion of the people here were Presbyttrians—— ' Mr AI M ASTER : How long will that be so ? Mr REYAOLDS : And he thought there could he bo objection on the part of their Episcopalian brethren, of the Wesleyans, or of any other body, to observing the Presbyterian fast-days. He thought that the remark that, without any enactment, other bodies

VouVl observe the fast-days better than the Presbyterians observed Good 'Friday and Clnistmas Day, was not exactly correct; because he believed, that slop of a Presbyterian would not be seen open either upon Good Friday or Christmas Day. Mr M'MASTHR thanked the honornbls gentleman who had just r.aedo\vn for h?s candid avowal. He suspected that tiio intention was a? stated. He was a Presbyterian, bnfc h) should be \er> loth to curtail the amusements of those not belonging to that body ; and for the cr-<lii. of the House he hoped that the c'.iui-e would bjivjjecfed. Mr P iTEHSOiV said that, so far as he knew, the clau«e had not beeifsubinttted to the Executive for approval; so that ifc must have been introduced'on the Solicitor's own responsibility. But having been proposed, he thought it would, ill become the House to refuse to sanction the clause. If there was to be religious toleration, he held that the House ought not to refuse, with places of amusement, of which a large proportion of the community disapproved altogether, to close them on certain occasions, when their being open was (.'specially objectionable, out of respectr to the religious viaws of that portion of the couivnunity. lie should equally regret to see theatres open on Good Fiid ly as on a Presbyterian fast-day, if their being so-was inconsistent with the view 3of those who held ihat Good Friday to be a day of sacred character. He had just beeu informed that the clause had that day been submitted to the Executive ; but he mast have bee 1 absent at the time, for he was not awa-e ai the f.ict.

The PROVINCIAL SOLICITOR could not a<lmit that the.clhn>"e was intended for the purpose alleged by his honorable colleague (Mr Reynol Is). He did not think it ivould bo for the interest of any manager or proprietor of a theatre to liave his place open on a day tli .t had been set apart by a portion of the community for rclicioiiß worship; that it would Dot be consistent with his interest to act so outrageously towards the feeling of a part of the community, Therefore, it was not so much to meet this cass of case that the clause wa=s introduced, as to meet the various occasions which might arise, in which it would be desirable that sonic mark of respect should be shown, so to the memory of a departed worthy of the province. ItTv.is quite light to retain the power of closing thaafcres, in oi-Jr-r to meet such and similar occasions.

Mr WALKER protested against the introduction of such a clause at the end of a bill and the close-, of a debfite; it should have been printed with the others.

Honorable gentlemen had right'y said that the' good foxing of a portion qf the community would lead them to respect a < ay sr-t apart for religions worship by a lai'ge number of the members of that community; but honorable members forgot that the enactment of suchac'ausc deprived managers of theatres of the opportunity of manifesting their good feeling, which sv.';s enj iyed by their fellow-citizens, lie had observed that on the Presbyterian fast days, the shops

;enera)ly had b;en closed, and the days had been

decently observed ; and he believed that the managers of respectable theatres were jusfc as likely to alopt that course, as any other portion of the community. He believed ti.at as the managers lespr'cted (Jbod Friday and Chris*mas Day, so they wou'd, if left to themselves, observjthe fast days, and the occasion of any public funeral. Mr PATERSON" said that on the evening of the last fast day the theatres were open. Mr HARDY remembered that those who now wanted t!ie power of closing theatres on fast days, moved a resolution declaring that wine and ale shops should not be closed on (iood Friday. Mr GILLIES said that-, if it was granted that managers of rospecablc theatrr-s would voluntarily closa on fast days, the clause would be no hardship upon them ; but the clause would mec-t the case of

those who were not so respectable and would not close. The reference made by Mr Hardy was not quite correct. The objection was the placing Good Friday and Christmas Day on the same footing as the Sabbath day. Mr REYNOLDS said he found that some of his colleagues understood Win to say that the object of the bill was ti close theatres on fast days; certainly, he intended to say that such was one of its objects only.

Tha PROVINCIAL SECRETARY said that the Executive would be constantly changing; so that any idea that the object of the clause,was to close the

theatres en Presbyterian fast days "was somewhat preposterous. The Executive was even now not wholly composed of Presbyterians. If he thought that the clause would in' any way encourage a displap of bigotry, he would oppose it; but he believed it only to be giving to to th'j Superintendent a power which he might exercise most laudably, in requiring the theatres to be closed on occasions of deep public mourning, and as (the Provincial Secretary) thought, on some occasions of fasting also. He should not suppose that the cli use would be used to compel theatres to be closed at all on Presbyterian fast-days, or in any way to corn-

port with thi' views of a particular religious denomination ; but he regarded it as intended to show a particular feeling on particular public occasions. Mr REN NIK considered that the Executive had given a most satisfactory explanation; and. that it quite right the proposed power should be given to the Superintendent.

Upon a division, there were—

Ayes, ,9: Messrs M'Glnshan, Renuie, Todd, Gillies, Paterson, Martin, Cavgil!, Reynolds, and Dick. Noes, 5: Messrs M'Master, Hardy, Oswin, Howorth, and Walker, n.

The clause was therefore affirmed.

The PROVINCIAL SOLICITOR moved anew clause as No. 14. —l< All power by this Ordinance vested in the Superintendent shall bs executed by and with the advice and consent of the Executive Council." This was adopted. The House resumed; progress was reported ; and Thursday was fixed for the third reading of tiie bill.

POIiTCE REGULATION BILL. This bill was read a third time and passed. At ten o'clock the House adjourned to four o'clock this day (Wednesday.)