EVIDENCE RELATIVE TO THE OEIGIN

insecurity, derived from a want of protection and a want oflaw. Three years agowhenl first had my attention particularly drawn to it, it struck me that the origin of it, was the absence of law among the natives and the necessity of some law to govern them. The natives say, " that as far as we nre able to judge the law of the pakeha existed only for the protection of the pakeha, and for those immediately around their districts, but we have been living under British Government and find that authority will not prevent the outrages of other tribes. The authority of the chiefs who formerly decided these disputes being gone, the absolute necessity of organizing Runangas forced itself upon us to protect ourselves— from a feeling of insecurity under British law." Then came the question of land; their dislike to alienate land arises in consequence of the system which has been pursued in acquiring it. This was another cause of accelerating the King movement. I was absent from the colony about twelve months, and on my return I found that the movement had made rapid strides in the south. On my return I met a personage (whom perhaps I ought not to mention here) at Otaki: the first question I asked was, " what was the state of the King movement"? The reply was, that it was fast dying out, that the Waikato who first originated it had given it up. I replied that I was surprised at this, as I found it growing at Otaki. Mr. M'Lean, who was also present, then said, that the natives in the south had picked it up as a child did a toy that had been thrown away. The progress of the King movement is to be attributed, in my opinion, to the action of the Land Purchase Department in the southern part of this Island. 45. What do you conceive has been the effect on the natives of their being permitted to wage wars without the interference of the Government? and also of the principal laid down by the Governor that he would only repress native outrages inter se, if committed within the boundaries of lands belonging to Europeans?—l slightly alluded to this in answering a previous question, 1 may state my opinion positively and distinctly, that nothing could be more calculated to alienate the feelings of the Natives, than the practical denial of Government protection, and the entire duty of protection being cast back upon the chiefs. Nothing could have tendered more thoroughly to alienate their feelings than that. When murders have been committed and the parties have applied to the Government for protection, they have been plainly and distinctly told that they must protect themselves. This has compelled them to establish an organization for Uie purpose of punishing criminals. The greatest step towards alieniating the feelings of the Natives from the Government was taken when they were denied the protection and the justice to which they clearly had a right. When Natives are told that they may carry on a war with one another, in order to protect themselves, I am not surprised that they should go up and down with arms in their hands, and that they should lose that respect for the Government which they otherwise would have had. 46. Do you know in what light the Natives of the South regard the Taranaki war, that is, whether they regard it as undertaken in vindication of the Queen's authority, or if not, in what other light?— All of those with whom I have conversed, and wko are acquainted with the facts of the case, being in some instances near relations of the persons concerned, having themselves resided on the land at Waitara, are of opinion that the war was not undertaken with the view of vindicating the authority of the Queen, but they state positively and distinctly that it was a sheer act of spoliation. 47. Mr. Richmond.] Have you made yourselves acquainted with the different ancestral stock* (or takes) of the Ngatiawa?—l don't profess to know anything about them, lam not prepared to answer that, though I may know something about them. 48. Have you ever conversed on the subject of ancestry with any of the Ngatituaho of pure blood, such as Raru or Kaupongo? —I have had conversations with them on these subjects when I was in a pah with four or five hundred of the Ngatiawa tribe, and have since conversed with others on the subject, lamat a loss to give a more definite answer to that question. I have often conversed with the head of the Hapu—Te Patukakariki. 49. Does your la<t answer apply to the descent, and the Land Claims at Waitara, of the Ngatituaho?—Certainly not, I have not seen or spoken to Patukakariki for the last sixteen years. 50. You say that there are four Hapus under King —have they equal right to the South Bank ot Waitara?—l think they have. 51. What are the grounds of your opinion?—l ground it on the evidence of living witnesses. 52. Is your opinion derived from conversations subsequent to the present dispute?—l have it on the authority of those persons with whom I have conversed on the subject, and who have objected to the sale of land at Waitara. 53. Prior to the present dispute have you ever had conversations relative to the respective rights of the four Hapus to the South Bank?—l have previously stated that I believe in the fact of the tribal right of Win. King —having stated as much distinctly —it is a question in which I take no interest, as I think it irrelevant. I have had conversation on the subject and Ido not believe that any separate rights exist between Ngatihinga and Ngatituaho on the one side and Ngatikura and Ngatitenuku on the other: the various hapus through former intermarriages are so mixed up with one another that it would be impossible to distinguish among them. It is impossible to give either an affirmative or a negative to a question which you can neither believe nor disbelieve. The question is perfectly unintelligible and irrelevant. 54. Has King or any of the Ngatikura ever cultivated on the disputed Block?—I am not aware that they have cultivated any part of that land since their return—but his tribe have in former times cultivated there. When I was at Waitara his cultivations were almost exclusively on the North Bank. 55. Can you say if any of those cultivations were within the disputed Block?—I do not know from personal knowledge. 56. Where was Reretawhangawhanga'a Pa before the migration?—l do not know—he principally lived at Mauukorilii—l am not certain that his Fa was there.

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