BEFORE THE WAIKATO COMMITTEE,

F—No. 3

1300. You have said that a large majority of the Natives were of the King party: will you state what tribes belonged to the Queen party ?—Ngatitipa was divided, a portion being of the King party ; Ngatipou, the same. As regards other tribes, I cannot speak positively, as I had not had the opportunity of frequent intercourse with them ; but, as regards those near Tuakau with which I am well acquainted, they were divided. 1301. Then, do I understand that the intimate knowledge which you have spoken of of the the sentiments of the tribes, applies mainly to those in your own neighbourhood ?—Yes ; but I obtained a good knowledge of the sentiments of other tribes by frequent casual intercourse with Natives of those tribes. 1302. You have said that Mr. Fenton's proceedings were considered injudicious by yourself and fellow settlers : will you name other settlers who partake of your opinions?—l may name Messrs. Underwood and Barry of Waikato, and Mr, Chandler. I cannot call to mind particular names; but I have had conversation with several. 1303. You say Mr. Fenton was instrumental in encouraging party feeling among the Natives : will you be so good as to describe more particularly what you mean by encouraging party feeling, and how Mr. Fenton was instrumental in it?—l heard this from a Native, of course. Mr. Fenton called at Tuakau, was requested to go inland to a pa, and objected. It was not till after the Native had convinced him that they were Queen's party that he consented. 1304. You do not know anything of the circumstance, of your own knwledge ? —I do not; I have not had an opportunity of meeting Mr. Fenton in his magisterial capacity. 1305. You have referred to this as an instance of Mr. Fenton's encouraging party feeling amongst the Natives ; are you aware of any other instances which have come to your knowledge ?—I cannot speak personally ; 1 have heard other similar instances which I cannot call to mind. 1306. You have said that Mr. Fenton's presence at Waikato increased the opposition of the King party ; was the King party strong at that time in your own neighbourhood ?—Yes, the King party was strong. 1307. Who was the influential Chief in your neighbourhood?—Karaka. 1308. Was he a strong King's party man ? —Yes. 1309. Do you recollect a meeting that was held at Tuakau on the 27th July 1857 ; was it the meeting at which Mr, Fenton was present ?—Yes ; I was not present at the meeting, but heard of it. It was attended by the principal chief of Tuakau. 1310. Mr. Forsaith.] In a former answer you have said that Mr. Fenton's residing at Waikato increased the King party, and again that bis proceedings were injurious by creating dissensions between the King and the Queen party, and afterwards you stated that virtually all the Natives were of the King party, though under the semblance of a Queen party; how do you reconcile these statements ?—The former part of that question relates to the time when Mr. Fenton was in Waikato; the latter part relates to the present time. 1311. Chairman.] Do you know whether Karaka was at the meeting at Tuakau?—l believe he was. 1312. Do you know whether he then agreed to Mr. Fenton's proceedings ?—I am not aware that he did; but, in my conversations with him, lam aware he was a leader of the King party. 1313. In what way were Mr. Fenton's proceedings instrumental in exciting party feelings ?—I draw mv conclusions from his not mixing with the King party. 1314. You have said that Mr. Fenton's being at the Waikato would not have proved beneficial to the Natives; in what way would it have proved otherwise than beneficial?—By increasing the jealousy of the Chiefs. 1315. Can you mention any instance in your own knowledge in which Mr. Fenton's proceedings were attended with injurious consequences ? —By the introduction of runangas and a feeling of equality: I mean a neglect of the rank of the older Chiefs. In a conversation I had with two old Chiefs, Poharama and Te Pepene, they told me a Native of inferior rank had disputed their right of chieftainship in respect of a piece of land claimed by them. 1316. You have stated that the Natives with whom Mr. Fenton acted were influenced by mercenary motives ; can you mention any instance within your own knowledge ?-_-My impression is from conversations I have' had with Natives, that that is the fact; my intercourse is so confined. 1317. Will you name any particular Native influenced by such motives?—l am not aware of any in particular. Such is my general opinion. 1318. You have said that in your opinion the removal of Mr. Fenton from Waikato was a judicious step at that time ; will you state the exact results which followed his removal as regards the sentiments of the Natives ?—A subsiding in a great measure of the turbulence of the King party. 1319. How as regards those who had been favourable to Mr. Fenton's proceedings ?—They have joined ihe King party. At the large meeting at Ngaruawahia, the whole of them went over. 1320. You have said that Mr. Fenton selected his Native magistrates and probationers from inferior ranks ; can you name any of those magistrates and probationers so selected ?—One from the Ngatipou of the name of Hopihana, another named Tamihana; I know them personally. 1321. Do you know the rank of Tamihaaa ?—He is a Chief; be is a son of the principal Chief of the tribe, the nephew of the present Chief, the grandson of a Chief of great influence, on the father's side ; his mother was of inferior rank. 1322. Did the selection of these probationers give dissatisfaction to the Natives ?—I believe they were selected by themselves.

Mr. C. Marshall. 22 Oct. 1860.

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