BEFORE THE WAIKATO COMMITTEE.

F—No. 3

1411. You have said that Mr. Fenton's Report is full of misstatements : will you specify them? > —Yes. Take page 11: "personal character now carries more influence than high blood." The four lines commencing "When Karaka Te Wira died" down to the word "disposed," is a tissue of misstatements. When Karaka te Wira died no meeting was held to appoint a successor : his brother Tomo, a man whom I have often heard called in derision a dumb person, succeeded as a matter of course. When Wiremu Ngatikahu was killed, his son Paul succeeded, and the hapu is not dispersed. Neither does Mr. Fenton appear to be aware that they are a branch of the Ngatipo, under the Chief Te Karaka Tomo. Further on Mr. Fenton says, " The Chief alone has no power,'' which is quite a fallacy. In page 12, from the words " I have brought, &c," down to " Native character," Mr. Fenton's ignorance of the language at that time and the small opportunity he had of becoming acquainted with the Maori habits, made it impossible that he could do more than propound the most crude theories for solving the difficulties ot the Native question. In a paragraph in the same page, referring to the Missionaries, commencing at "the time will come"; the source of Mr. Fenton's information may be suimised. At page 18, " Although I have but little," &c.; the very slight mention made by Mr. Fenton of that great movement shows that he was quite ignorant of its importance. In the same page he speaks of "keeping up a perpetual but not unhealthy excitement :" no man nor body of men couldlive in a condition of perpetual excitement. In page 20, "In a conversation with me," &c. : Mr. Chandler was the first person from whom 1 heard of the King movement some six years ago, and has a great knowledge of the Waikato Natives. Page 26 he says, " There is no dependence to be placed in these old men.'' * * * In my opinion, had Europeans been encouraged to settle among the Natives and lease their land, it would have tended more to preserve the peace of the country than any such measure as indicated :by Mr Fenton. In page 27, " 1 find this King business a nuisance and obstruction" ; this is another instance of the slight estimation in which Mr. Fenton held that movement. If I had had time I would have made a special note of all the passages from which 1 differ. I would especially note the disparaging tones in which the late Maori King is spoken of, and which shows that Mr. Fenton was ignorant of his history and unbounded influence in Waikato. 1412. You have referred to an alleged misstatement in p. 11 relative to the successor of Karaka te Wira ; did you attend his funeral \ —l was absent at the time of his funeral; but if any election had taken place I must have heard of it. 1413. You have referred to Karaka Tomo as being so stupid as to have been characterized as a dumb person: is that the same person whom you heard Mr. Marshall speak of as the great Chief of Ngatipou who opposed Mr. Fenton?—l have already stated that he is the head Chief of the Ngatipou. 1414. Did not Karaka Te Uru have a son ?—Two. 1415. Why did not his eldest son succeed him? —In a matter of Chieftainship it is usually a brother who succeeds, if there is one. 1416. Did Potatau have any brothers living ?—I do not think he left a full brother. 1417. Who succeeded Potatau ?—A son. 1418. Did Riwai of Ngatiruru have a brother ?—I think his brother died before him. 1419. Did he have a son ?—Yes, a very scampish young fellow. 1420. Who succeeded Riwai ?—I do not recollect : his son did not. 1421. You said that the Ngatikahuneke is not now dispersed: where did they live in Wiremu's lifetime ?—At Te Ilmtaroa. 1422. Where do they live now?—l cannot say, but I have seen them at the time Mr. Fenton speaks of, living among the other Ngatipou at Tuakau. 1423. You have spoken of the Natives having abandoned their industrial pursuits as one of the evils arising from the runangas: is not that attributable to the great fall in prices in the Australian markets ?—I think that fall took place in 1855. 1424. You have said that Mr. Fenton's proceedings increased the opposition of the King party : to what, opposition do you refer ?—To the Government, 1425. You have stated that Mr. Fenton caused the distinction to be made between the parties on the Waikato, as being under the King's flag and the Queen's flag: do you mean that Mr. Fenton •established a Queen's flag ?—I was not present. That was my impression from what Mr, Fenton said after the meeting at Paetai, and he added he should like to give Kukutai a Union Jack. 1426. You have referred to a case in which Mr. Fenton issued a summons, and did not attend the hearing: are you not aware that Mr. Fenton stated as his reason for not adjudicating in that case that it was beyond his jurisdiction ? —No. he did not. 1427. What was the amount of the summons ?—The amount of the summons was £40. 1428. Chairman.] I understand, that in your*view there is amongst the Natives, especially in the Waikato district, a distinct feeling of independence, leaning to positive hostility towards the European race, which is an absolute impediment to any remedial measures except coercion ?—Oh no. 1429. Then will you be good enough to state your precise view of the character of the agitation in the native mind ?—I believe the Natives will not surrender their independence without a struggle to maintain it, especially alter the bad success which has attended our arms at Taranaki. 1430. You think that has emboldened them ?—I have no doubt of it. That is no doubt an impediment in the way of remedial measures at present, but as soon as circumstances would admit of it, I think they should be tried. 1431. Do you think then, if the prestige of British power were re-established, the Natives would submit themselves voluntarily to a system of law recognizing the British supremacy ?—When thej recognize our supremacy in arms, they, will recognize it in every other point.

Capt. C. J. Johnstone* 22 Oct. 1860.

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