F—No. 3

BEFORE THE WAIKATO COMMITTEE.

Te Horohait, 22 Oct, 1860,

Te Horohau calledin and examined.

1455. Chairman.] What is your name ?—Te Horohau. 1456. A Chief of what tribe ?—Ngatihine. 1457. In what district of Waikato ?—The centre of Waikato. 1458. Do you remember the meeting at Paetai ? —I do. 1459. That at which the Governor was present ?• —Yes. 1460. Were you present yourself ?—I was present. 1461. What were the desires expressed by the Natives at that meeting to the Governor ?—Their cnly word there was in praise of the Governor. 1462. Did they ask the Governor to have a Magistrate and law ? - —Their only request was to have a Kai-whakawa (magistrate). 1463. What did the Governor say ?—The Governor said that some of their Maori young men should be appointed as Kai-uhahauas for them. 1464. Were those at the Paetai meeting pleased or displeased at this ?—They asked to have some of their number appointed as Kai-whakawas for them. 1465. Did the Natives generally in the Waikato approve of the appointment of an English Magistrate at Waikato ?—They did not, for only four persons consented : the majority did not consent. 1466. Did the Natives at Paetai not ask for an English Magistrate ?—Four persons consented. 1467. And no more ?—These were all. 1468. Name the four?—Te Kereihi was the senior Chief, Hone Kingi and Waata Kukutai ; the other I do not know, he was a young man. 1469 Then what the ctheis desired was to have a Maori Magistrate ?—lt was. 1470. It was that, then, that the Natives were pleased at, -which the Governor premised?— The Governor's -word was that a Maori should be appointed as Kai-whakawa. 1471. Then when Mr. Fenton came as Magistrate, what did the Natives think ?—When they viewed Mr. Fenton's work, they saw that it was not right. 1472. What was it in Mr. Fenton's work which was not right ?•—Mr. Fenton did not complete his work. Another thing, there was trouble about his work : cases of offence were not settled, nor were the payments forthcoming. 1473. Were you ever at one of Mr. Fenton's couits ?—I did not go there : what I know is, the people saying that they did not approve of Mr. Fenton as Magistrate. 1474. Will you name any Chiefs who told you this ?—The whole of them. 1475. Did not the Natives at the meeting at Paetai ask the Governor that they might have their runangas ?—Yes, that is more like it. 1476. Did they desire to do their work by themselves, or that they should be guided by a European Magistrate ?—No : by the Maories themselves, by their Maori Kai-whakawas. 1477. Did you then wish the work to be done according to Maori custom, or the law ?—Done according to the law. 1478. How would they learn the law unless they were guided by some one who knew it ?—They learnt from the book, the laws are in the book. 1479. Suggested by Mr. McLean.) Could a European Magistrate have carried out any decision in the Waikato, such as apprehending a prisoner ?—Their runanga would have to work upon that road. If it was clone through the Maori runanga, it would be done ; but if it was not done through the Maori runanga, in that case it would not. 1480. If Pukewhau, Potatau, and other principal Chiefs had refused to obey a decision of the European Magistrate, could it have been enforced ?—lt could not. 1481. Where are you residing?- —At Rangitoto, between Auckland and Tamaki: this is my ninth year there. 1482. You have not resided then at Waikato ? —I continue to visit there. 1483. Are the Waikato Chiefs in the habit of visiting you here ?—They visit me every week. 1484. Did you ever hear any language used by the Queen's party on the Waikato river which would be likely to affront Potatau ?—But one word, that word was from Waata Kukutai :it was an expression about putting down the Maori king. 1485. What was that expression? —His only word was to suppress the King. 1486. Did you ever hear this expression, "Hoe koka," used about Potatau ?—I never heard. 1487. Did Mr. Fenton's proceedings cause a division of parties at Waikato? —They did. 1488. Was it Mr. Fenton's words that caused that ?—No : it was partly by Mr. Fenton's work, and partly by their King movement. 1489. Were the older Chiefs pleased or displeased at that division ?—They, the men of the Queen, separated themselves. This is what my eyes have seen. What the old Chiefs wanted was, that the King party and the Queen party should be united, and mingle together. The Waikatos, as far as Ngaruawahia, voted for the mana that was their desire; and those to the South of that, for the King, that was theirs. Mr. Marshall called in and further examined. 1499. Chairman} What was the effect of Mr. Fenton's proceedings as regards the payment of debts to Europeans in the Waikato District ?—The effect was this : it annihilated •f getting redress by law. It is a general remark through the District that Mr. Fenton informed the Natives that he would not enforce the payment of debts incurred by the Natives to Europeans previous to his appointment.

Mr. Marshall.

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