AGAINST MR. C. W. RICHMOND.

29

F—No. 3

148. Mr. Russell.] In what capacity did you attend that deputation ?—At the request of the Governor, as District Land Purchase Commissioner. I would also state, Mr. Halse, Assistant Native Secretary, was present at the deputation I refer to. 149. Dr. Featherston.] Referring to the Governor's Memorandum of the 19th November, 1855, in which His Excellency states " that certain proceedings had raised the suspicion that the Europeans " would not rest until they had slain and taken possession of that which the Maories likeßed to Naboth's " vineyard," will you state whether you have ever heard the phrase " until they had slain and taken " possession of Naboth's vineyard" used by the Natives ? —I never have. 150. I lay before you your letter to the Bishop of New Zealand of 26th August, 1858, and draw your attention to the second paragraph :— "In the absence of a Clergyman able to confer with them, I consented to talk the subject over "with them and report to your Lordship, which I have much pleasure in doing, as a member of the ''• Church (unworthy as I am) but not in the capacity of a Government officer, lest I should be charged " with partiality for Natives of that denomination, as some are wont to do, because I refuse to support " or countenance dishonourable and treacherous treatment of Wm. King and his people, to exterminate " them from the Waitara in accordance with Mr. Turton's peremptory plan for the acquirement of that " delightful and much-coveted district." Will you state by whom the district was coveted : by Europeans or Natives ?—ln reply to this question I wish to state that it was an unguarded expression, hurriedly written in a private letter, which I never for one moment supposed would have been so perverted as it has been, for the purpose of being made political capital. The expression principally alludes to Natives, but there are no doubt some Europeans who had a right to covet it, having paid for it 16 or 18 years previously. I would further state in so coveting it, I do not think they had a desire to expel the Natives from the district. The allusion to Mr. Turton's peremptory plan, is that Mr. Turton suggested, as near as I remember, that the justice of the case demanded that Wm. King and his Natives should be removed north of the Company's boundary. In reply to Dr. Featherston, who submitted that this answer was not a sufficiently direct one, the Witness said : By Natives who were the present claimants of the district and had a desire to sell it to the Government, which had been the cause of the Native feuds. 151. Mr. Fitzherbert.] Do the Committee understand then, that the District was not coveted by Europeans ?—I have already stated it might have been by those who originally purchased land in that district. Mr. Fitzherbert submitted that the Witness's reply was an indirect one ; he wished to obtain a direct affirmative or negative to his question. The Witness stated there was no doubt but that the Europeans coveted it, so far as it could be obtained by lawful means. 152. Chairman.] Were you ever employed by any person apart from the Government to purchase land to the north of the Waitara ?—No. 153. Dr. Am I to understand that the District was also coveted by its Native own rs ?—So far coveted as to enable them to sell it to the Government. 154. Can a man covet his own property ?—lf he is prevented making that use of it which he wishes ; by might and not right. 155. Was any attempt ever made to acquire the Waitara for any particular set of Natives ?—Not that I am aware of. 156. Will you describe what Mr. Turton's peremptory plan was?— already stated it, but I repeat it, that the justice of the Waitara question demanded that Wm. King and his people should be removed North of the Company's original boundary. He also mentioned Titirangi, which was not the original boundary ; really, it was at a place called Taniwha. I wish to add that when Mr. Turton suggested this plan, the Natives who have now sold the Waitara were included in Wm. King's people. 157. I was not referring to the "justice of the Waitara question," my question was simply to enquire of you Mr. Turton's peremptory plan?— The only plan I am aware of was the one I have stated before, to remove them North of the Company's original boundary. 158. Was it any part of Mr. Turton's plan to acquire the Waitara for any particular set of Natives? —1 cannot say. 159. Chairman.] From whence do you derive your knowledge of Mr. Turton's plan? —From the journal of Mr. Turton published in the Taranaki Herald, as nearly as I remember in 1855. The clerk read the following paragraph, being selection from a " Memo, by Mr. Turton in reference to a correspondence between the Bishop of New Zealand and Mr. Parris":— " If, therefore, his Lordship can only persuade William King to retire from the league, and remove, with Katatore and his people, to the other shore of the Waitara, leaving the whole of the block on this side, to be disposed of by those who are now its sole and rightful owners—thus causing it to be immediately occupied by a large European population —then the Ngatiruanuis would retire quietly home, and the question would be peaceably settled. But if some minor arrangement of this kind is not proposed and agreed to, then I will venture to prophecy that the final settlement of this perverse dispute, to render it effectual, will have to include the whole of the seaboard, from the White Cliffs on the one hand, to Wanganui on the other." " When we mentioned our proposal in the last paper, we meant to say that that was the most lenient measure which, under the circumstances, would be accepted by the injured party. Otherwise, the full justice of the case would require, as regards William King's people, that they should be at once removed away beyond the original Surveyor's line at Titirangi; and by no means be allowed, (after all their opposition to the Government, for the past three years,) to reap the commercial advantages of the Northern banks of the Waitara, which in a short time would make them more unbearable

Mr. Parris. 17 th August, 1861