E—No. 8

mountain, and that our produce, that of the tribes, may be conveyed for sale. I speak thus to you, 0 Governor, because of the words which you spoke to me about the roads and the bye-roads: I consent to them. This is neutrality (or friendliness). O Waikato, I am much in want of my road. Look at my side (of the subject). Let the Kupapa (neutral native) defer his word (of censure). If you see the guns and soldiers travelling on the road, the error will be mine, apprehend me, because I shall be in fault : judge me, convey me to prison because the Governor and I shall have cleared the road, allowing the guns and soldiers to pass. If my road is formed I shall be much pleased at being able to take my potatoes, and wheat, and onions, and other produce to market. That is all about the road. I do not agree to the (European) Magistrates. We want no other Magistrate than Waata and Wiremu te Awaitaia ; they can do the work. Our errors and our faults can be talked over ; if there is any great offence, I can write about it to you. I will not consent to adopt the Runanga and the Magistrate. That side (system) is very good, but I have spoken to you about it in the town, telling you I was not agreeable to it. I will tell ray errors by letter lest it be said that I have been flattering you. Ruihana (Ngatikarewa) : If I fall now, do not laugh at me. This is my patience and my kindness. It is for my eye to see good and evil. These are the things I am afraid of, guns and powder. Break them loose (release the restrictions on their sale), and I shall be satisfied : these, in my opinion, are the fearful things. My thoughts are, make an opening for the snake (allow the sale of arms and ammunition). O Governor, cause the reptile to be driven forth : I have no fear connected with any other treasures, with money, or blankets, or other things ; it is all with guns and powder (i. e., for you to possess them and the Maories not). His Excellency : Who is the gupowder for, and for what purpose ? Ruihana: Either to keep, or to shoot birds with. His Excellency : I cannot let any one get guns, either European or Maori. Do you only want shot ? Ruihana : Shot is good ; if in large quantity, it is good : it is for you to look at what I say. His Excellency : What are you afraid of? Euihana : 1 am afraid of you. His Excellency : You need not fear me ; I will take care of you. Ruihana : Very well: you will take care of me : but there is your dog (military force). His Excellency : I am so determined to have good, that I will not put arms into people's hands with which to kill each other. I am so fond of being safe, that I shall keep everything locked up, Hereafter, if I can find chiefs that I can trust, and they want gunpowder for shooting birds, we will talk about it. I am a very cautious man ; they might shoot other birds. Ruihana: That can be thought about. This will be the cause of my death (my being deceived); it is said peace, peace; but it rests only on the lips. Where does it reside? His Excellency: What I do for one, I shall have to do for others. Ruihana: Other men must speak for themselves, and you look at (judge) what they say. His Excellency: I don't intend to keep anything back from you; but this I will uot promise. Ruihana: Hence the fear. Now am I in dread about that. I looked at the alienation of my land, and hence I said, let not the land pass away without payment. His Excellency: Do you ask who is to pay1? Ruihana: You, you must pay me. It (the land) is for the payment of powder, of powder for me, and for the purchase of guns for me, that the reptile may go forth, that fear may cease, aud that I may know there is no evil. His Excellency: I cannot consent to arms being sold. Herewini Hunia (Ngatitahinga): I formed my desire, and expressed it to the Pakehas. It was not long before the Governor's letter arrived, containing his dissent, and preventing (the settling of) my minister; hence I was slow to survey the laud. Now, Governor Browne and I disputed on that subject. His Excellency: If Natives desire to give land for the clergy, I shall always allow it. I should like to see the land filled with clergymen. Herewini: Now, this is my reply to that: if Governor Browne had said the same, it would have been well. I now say to you, yive me a Pakeha (minuter). His Excellency: You must go to the Bishop. I will do my best with him, and I think you will soon get it done. Apera Kiwi (Ngatitahinga): This is another subject, the ferrying of the Pakehas at my river Whaingaroa. I cross the poor (class of) Europeans, who say they will pay, but don't. They run away into the bush. His Excellency: As soon as we get the Runanga, it will settle on some annual payment for the ferryman at Raglan. Te Pou Totara (Ngatitipa): Welcome, father. You come not here of your own accord, but are brought by the providence of God. (Song.) My friend, who loves us, welcome. Now I will ask you, what roads are they which you say are to be provided by the Runanga? His Excellency: Any roads you like. Te Pou Totara: Listen; all that 1 know about (will consent to) is the river, the Waikato, which it flowing by: that is the road in your possession. The boat can come, the gig-boat can come, the whale-boat can come. That is all the road that 1 am light about (agree to). As for a road over the land, no. These are all the roads, the water. His Excellency: Mr. Fenton has been sent up to start all these things, and if you will work well and truly with me, I pledge myself to work with you, and help you to the uttermost of my power.

11

GOVERNOR SIR GEORGE GREY IN WAIKATO.