17

G.—l

Himiona :We wish to have Rotomahana adjudicated on. Some of the hapu of Tuhourangi are desirous of appointing certain chiefs to undertake the management of that place. Petera ■■ Do not listen to that putake. Tuhourangi do not wish to have it adjudicated on. Hohepa Tamamatu: Do not quarrel here; the subject brought before Mr. McLean is the question of tribal boundaries, not of subdivision. I agree to the tribal boundaries of Tuhourangi; the subdivision of the same can be laid before you at some other time. The hapu who are troubled are Ngatiwhakaue, for people who have no right to land within their boundaries have been encroaching, and consequently there has been trouble among Ngatiwhakaue. I will return from this to Taupo, and will now bid you farewell. I wish to return to Taupo, and lam sorry that you are prevented by troubles that have occurred in another place from accompanying me. I would urge you to go with me to Taupo, that we might have an opportunity of discussing questions relating to our lands, &c, with you. Do you consider (whakaaro) when you will visit Taupo. I will now bid you farewell. Let any negotiations respecting the disposal of lands be done publicly, and there will be no further trouble. I consider that Mr. Davis is to blame, not Mr. Mitchell. Hori Taiawhio : Do you understand the boundary, or shall I explain the nature of it to you ? I will do so, that you may understand it. That boundary was denned in Governor Grey's time, and though a person was outside and had a title to land inside the boundary, his title was recognized, for Tuhourangi considered that their mana should be over the land. Individuals have been disposing of land, by leasing or otherwise, which Tuhourangi have not; what has been sold should not be charged against Tuhourangi. Tuhourangi are very well aware that other parties have been endeavouring to dispose of their land. This is wrong. Parakaia is an old man, and his children are at Kapiti, and he wishes you to give him and his companions a passage there. Mr. McLean: That can be done for Parakaia. Manihera Ngahiwi: This arrangement respecting the tribal boundaries is not of to-day; it dates from Governor Grey's time, as you are well aware. Mr. McLean: I simply say this lest it should be thought that we were trying to impose upon you. Himiona .- I rise to reply to Petera's statement; he is the representative of one hapu, while 1 represent two, and this is why I said what I did with reference to Rotomahana. Pauru: I will say a few words respecting the boundary line. Tuhourangr's mana is over those lands which are being treated for with individuals; formerly Government entered into negotiations with the whole tribe, now they treat with individuals, which is a very objectionable proceeding. Tuhourangi now wish each individual to return the money that he has received. These difficulties about the disposal of lands have arisen through the action of Pakehas; if you wish to tapahi the kaki of Tuhourangi, do so; Tuhourangi have nothing to do with money paid to individuals. Mr. McLean: Tuhourangi, I thank you for the cordial welcome you have given me; you have now had an opportunity of giving expression to your grievances respecting land questions. You are right to welcome Katene, who I am pleased to find was able to accompany me here ; and I thank you for the sincerity of your expressions of goodwill, for you have always supported and helped the Government. With respect to the land and the tribal boundaries, I cannot give you an answer now, for it is a matter that requires consideration. You are right in saying that negotiations about land should be entered into publicly; a new Act was passed last Session which will thoroughly investigate and decide the question of ownership of land, and no land questions will be entertained un^l thoroughly investigated. The putake or subjects brought before me to-day will be considered by my friend Wi Katene, Mr. Clarke, and myself this evening, and what we think correct will be done. I have often heard of you, but it is only now that I have seen you at your own home. I again thank you for your welcome. Himiona : My reason for speaking is that we wish an officer to be appointed for the Arawa district; we heard that you were coming here, and we decided upon bringing the matter before you. . .. Aporo: I will address what I have to say to Hoani, who wishes that the Commissioners should be removed : this is for the Pakeha to whiriwhiri; he does not speak for Tuhourangi, he speaks on behalf of his own individual hapu, when he proposes the removal of the Commissioners, trig, stations, &c. I explain this that you may know we have nothing to do with it. Mr. H. T. Clarke: I will first say a few words with reference to a statement made by Tamati to the effect that I never visited this place. I came here in March last, again in April, and again in June, and I now tell Mr. McLean that you are very much scattered, some being in the bush, and some in various places, and that there is no work for the Magistrate when he does come to visit you; if you were all assembled together, Aporo's proposition could be carried out. What Aporo has said about the mill is true; the place was abandoned during the time of fighting, and that occasioned the necessity for repairing the mill, which was neglected during that time. I will now say a few words about the Rohe Potae (tribal boundary). You know quite well that it is an easy matter for people to describe large boundaries, which invariably on investigation prove to be incorrect, other people being found to be better claimants; therefore, it will be impossible for the Government, before investigation, to recognize the Rohe Potae. I will not say anything with reference to the action of the Government agents; you have already been informed by Mr. McLean that lam to have the supervision of such negotiations. I will speak a few words with 3—G. 1.