13

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822. I have seen it stated in print that a reason why the estate is not to be offered for rental or cut up is that such action might injure the property of Mr. Stokes, whose land adjoins ?—I should say that if that had any effect it would be to improve the value of Mr. Stokes's property. 323. You do not think that it would injure Mr. Stokes's property P —No, and, if it would, I do not think the trustees would stoop to consider that. It could not affect Mr. Stokes. There is a high ridge of almost impassable hills between the two properties. 324. The Chairman.'] The Committee has had evidence from Henare Matua that he wrote the petition—the original petition —that Mr. Grace was present, and assisted to the extent of supplying information as to the exact acreage of the estate, and no further; and that Mr. Grace merely copied the original draft which ho (Henare Matua) had made. Is that consistent with the impression on your mind ?—No. Besides, Mr. Grace, in his evidence before the Legislative Council, says he sent down to Napier for the petition. Question 187 is this : —" Then, as a result of this meeting, this petition was got up ?—Yes ; they asked me to send down to Mr. Sheehan's office for a petition, stating what the effect of it would be. I sent down a memorandum of what was wanted, and it was sent next day in English, when I explained it to Henare Matua and other Natives, who signed it; and from the English a Native copy was made." I would also call attention to what Henare Matua says. He says, in his evidence before the Legislative Council, " I was at Napier at the time that this petition was signed." Then, at question 291, he says, —" Was your signature attached to the petition at the time of the meeting? —The signatures were attached to the petition afterwards." 325. Hon. Mr. Fox.] You have said that the school is full, and that each child cost £25 per year ? —I spoke then of former times, but the cost is about the same now —from £20 to £25, including education. 326. I presume the number of educatable children in Hawke's Bay might be three hundred ? — Not far short of that. 327. There are now thirty children at the school, so that, if you had to educate all the children in Hawke's Bay, there would be a necessity for providing accommodation for two hundred and seventy more, together with an annual cost of £5,000 for the maintenance of the school. Do you see your way clear to do that ? —No. But I may say there is a great unwillingness on the part of the children to go to school. That has also been seen in the case of the Pakowhai and Omahu schools. Not long since Kenata complained to me of the children not going to his school, and said he hoped in future years the Natives would better appreciate his efforts. 328. Mr. Hursthouse.] Have you refused any applications for admission into the school ?—I have refused no applications from Hawke's Bay District itself. There were some applications a short time ago from the Wairoa District, but I told them there was not yet sufficient accommodation, and that when there was sufficient accommodation I would be glad to receive them. I expect they will come at the beginning of next year. 320. The Chairman.] You have refused no application from the original holders of the land?— No. On the contrary, I have done all I could to induce them to send their children. 330. Mr. Williams.'] You refused the others simply because you had no accommodation?—Yes. I simply asked them to wait a little while. 331. Mr. Taiaroa.] You never made the parents pay you anything for the children being at the school ?—No. 332. Is Henare Matua's statement that you demanded £20 true or false ?—It is false. I never asked or received sixpence. 333. Were you in Hawke's Bay at the time the land was given ?—Yes. I arrived there a fortnight before Sir George Grey and Bishop Selwyn. 334. You have a lease of the land ?—Yes ; till 1st February. 335. Are you willing that the trustees should publish their intention to lease the land ?—Yes; perfectly. [TRANSLATION.] Mokowhiti, 24th August, 1877. . . . . We inform you of some words which we did not see or hear; we saw them in the European newspaper, and there was also a word in the Wananga. The first word in the European newspaper goes on to say that the people of Te Aute have written a petition for the purpose of ejecting Mr. Williams, the minister of Te Aute. We say that we, the people of this place, Te Aute, neither saw nor heard of that petition : that is to say, the petition emanating from Te Hapuku and Henry Eussell. This talk took place at Te Hauke Poukawa. Another word said at that meeting was that Crown grants should be done away with, and things should revert to their old position. We do not want to see Crown grants done away with, because we have not seen the disasters resulting from the grants ; they result from the action of the people. It is false to say that the disasters come from the grants. Our opinion is that they come from the people. Sufficient are those words. . . . From your friends, Keeemkneta Tatjkeee, To Dr. Buller. And 6 Others. Tuesday, 6th Noyembee, 1877. Mr. W. H. Geace examined. 336. The Chairman.] You are a Native Interpreter, residing at Napier ? —Yes. 337. Mr. Takamoana.] Why was it you came to Napier?—I was requested by the Natives, through Mr. Sheehan, to come into the district. 338. What were your relations to be with the Natives in Np^ier ?—To wprk as interpreter for them, and between them and Mr. Sheehan,