1.—5

46

10S7. How would he be counted ? —He would be one passenger. We did not book through including the coach fare. He would take his fare to the place to which the railway was open, and then, after the coach journey, take his fare again from the connecting point. In this way he would count as two passengers. 1088. In 1877 would there be anything of that kind or not ?—No. 1089. Would that make any difference to the capitation on the passenger traffic?— Between Timaru and Waitaki few people travelled in those days, and very few between Makikihi and Waimate. Very few people travelled between the two points by coach. One coach took them all once a day. I do not think it would make an appreciable difference in the number of passengers by railway. 1090. You cannot say what passenger traffic there was upon that through line ?—IN'o ; but I should say it would be a very small percentage. Ido not think it would amount to twenty passengers a day. 1091. Was that the return on that line ? —That is passengers both way. 1092. Are these records kept?— Yes ; no doubt at that time by the coach proprietors. 1093. We can get them I suppose?— Yes, you could. But still it would hardly be a correct return. There might be settlers in the Waitaki District who would wish to go to Oamaru, but they could not be separated from the other. It would be difficult to get returns. I may suggest that the only way would be to get them from the coach proprietor. He might be able to state how many he carried between certain points. 1094. Would they be all coach people ? Would there not be settlers ?—There might be private conveyances. 1095. Will you be able to furnish now to the Committee in reference to the Saturday traffic that we were talking about just now—have you got anything like a correct return of the number of passengers travelling on Saturdays and Sundays in 1877 -who would be counted as singles now, but as doubles in 1876?—1t would take a few days. Would the month of June be a sufficient approximate, because that I could get by wire? Mr. Ormond: Yes, it would. Witness: I will get them in about three or four days. 1096. The Chairman.] Can you say whether under the new tariff the number of school and season tickets has been greater than in 1876 ? —I cannot say. I have not noticed. That is information I can get at the Government Buildings. The inducements are much greater in 1877, 1097. lir the calculations for 1877 was it for the four weeks or for the calendar month ?—For the four weeks. I think I explained that. 1098. In reference to the increased mileage, has the addition of that mileage increased or decreased the mileage returns on the Canterbury railways—that is to say, now that the line is open, to Waitaki and the additional mileage is put on? —It has decreased. It has invariably decreased on the extension of country lines. 1099. Which is the most lucrative part of the Christchurch lines ?—Lyttelton to Ashburton. 1100. Is the proportionate rate of increase for that section very much larger than the other or what ?—Much larger. 1101. Can you give any information as to the proportionate mileage receipts for July, 1876, and 1877? —Four weeks ending July 28, 1876, £54- 6s. lOd. per mile; four weeks ending July, 1877, £43 os. 9d. 1102. Well, now about the goods tariff. You told the Committee that there was a falling off in the trade between Lyttelton and Timaru on account of the running of the steamers. Can you give us any estimate of the extent, and what particular class of goods it is in ? —There has been one special complaint made by the brewers in reference to the beer. I believe it is a fact that two steamers have been put on between Lyttelton and Timaru. 1103. What steamer ? —The " Tui " is one. The last tariff of the Provincial Government drove off the steamers. 1104. Well, would that apply to the traffic to Timaru, and within what distance of Timaru would it apply to ?—I think Temuka. 1105. How far away from Timaru would it apply to, and can you give us information as to how the traffic would be affected ? —1 think it would affect it to Temuka. 1106. How far is that ? —Eleven miles. Ido not think it would affect Waimate. Perhaps Otaio to the South, Mount Eichardson, and the whole of the Albury branch line —Well, I do not think it would affect Pleasant Point, but it may possibly do so. That is a distance of twenty-six miles. I think it would hardly affect that, but it is very difficult to say. 1107. Mr. Ormond.'] Can you give something like the percentage of increase of goods tariff on the Canterbury railways. Have you ever worked that out? —JS'o, I have not. It varies very much, because on some the charge is very much lower, and on others much higher—goods that were formerly charged weight or measurement, at the option of the department. 1108. Can you say whether it is 10 or 15 per cent. ?—Well, Ido not think the increase is so much on the average. Ido not think it would be more than 10 per cent. In some instances it bears very heavily. I think I instanced firewood the other day. In some cases the charge would be double that of grain per ton. 1109. Under the new tariff ?—Ye?. 1110. That would not affect this particular case we are talking about, would it?— Well, it affects any one sending it from Oxford. Ido not think it would affect the Timaru District. 1111. The Chairman.] It would affect Waimate?—Yes, it would affect it, iust the same as Oxford. J 1112. Mr. Ormond.] If the increase were 15 per cent., how would it affect the districts outside Timaru? —With regard to Timaru, I was credibly informed by a merchant that he could forward sugar from Christchurch to Lyttelton, and thence by steamer to Timaru, and again by rail to Temuka, lor less money than he could send by Tail from Christchurch to the latter place.

Mr. Lawsoii

31st Aug., 1877.