31

I.—4a,

Mr. Wallace.

27th Sept., 1878,

insurance companies to " keep in " with the police. What did you mean by that ?—I do not know that it is necessary for them to do it, but I only hold it is well to do it. 834. AVhy did you use that expression ?—Do you mean that, unless the police are kept in with, they would not perform their duty ?—No. The police are mainly instrumental in hunting up cases of this sort, and it is only right that the companies should pay them for bringing men to justice, when they are put to any expense in doing so, or when they do their duty well, and are put to a great deal of extra trouble. It must be recollected that the police in this way save the companies large sums of money. 835. Did any police officer ever say to you, " What will you give for a conviction ?" or words to that effect ? —No ; I think if he had said such a thing, he would have been certain to get nothing at all, but I have no recollection of anything of the sort being said to me. 836. AVas anything said as to what the insurance companies would give if the case was prosecuted ? —Not at all. The only thing that I can call to mind in connection with the police and insurance companies, and that would bear upon this point, is, that a policeman may have said, " We save the companies a lot of money, and you are not liberal enough." Ido not recollect anything having been said in that way, but in conversation it may have been put in that way. 837. Mr. Swanson] Gave you a hint, you mean, about not being generous ? —Tes. 838. Mr. Tole] Do you think that, if the companies refused to give any money, the police would do their duty the less ? —No. 839. 2L'. Barton] In Pestridge's case, I understand you to say that no police officer, or sergeant, or man said, " AVhat will you give for a conviction ?" or any words to that effect ?—No. It is some time ago, and I speak from memory, but I think not. 840. If you said so to Mr. Boardman, would you remember it ? —I do not think I should be likely to make such a statement if it did not happen to me. 841. Then, if Mr. Boardman recollects that you did say that, what then?—l am perfectly certain such a thing was not said ; and I may mention that I was perfectly pleased in Pestridge's case with the despatch which was used by the police. I thought at the time that, as Government property was involved—the railway station also having been burnt down—that was the reason why the police were so smart. I thought it might have acted as an additional stimulus. At any rate, the police did their duty in that case. 842. Were you and others not aware that, although Farrell was prosecuting the inquiry vigorously, the Inspector was throwing difficulties in the way ? AVas not that a matter of discussion between you and other insurance agents that Farrell was working his best to get a conviction, and that the Inspector was working on the other side ?—No ; I have no recollection of that. 843. Are you sure that no such discussion ever took place ? —I am almost certain of it, because, with regard to Pestridge's case, I believed the Inspector was working up the case well. 844. Tou thought that then ; will you say so now ? —I havo thought that all along. 845. That it was the Inspector, not Farrell? —AVell, I looked upon it that Farrell was taking his orders from Inspector Atchison. 846. Were you not aware tlrat Farrell was trying to work up the case, and that he and the Inspector were not pulling together? —I think not. I had several conversations with the Inspector, and lam certain that he worked up the case well on that occasion. The only thing that annoyed me was that the principal witness was not to be found when the trial came on. 847. Did you ever tell Mr. Boardman anything to this effect: that Inspector Atchison came to you and said, " AVhat will you give for a conviction ?" and that Atchison never intended to take any steps, but that Farrell proceeded with the case, although Atchison opposed him ? —No ; I do not. 848. Did you ever say anything to Mr. Boardman about that ? —No. I had no conversation with Farrell. If Mr. Boardman says that I said that, he makes a mistake ; but I did consider it was a pity that the principal witness was away. 849. Mr. Swanson] AVhose fault was that ?—lt appeared the subpoena had never been issued. It was generally supposed that he was kept right out of the way, but it was not attributed to the police in any way. 850. Major Atkinson] Were you satisfied with the distribution of the £40? Had you any reason to be dissatisfied with it ? —Well, although 1 mentioned the names of O'Connor, Farrell, and Byrne to receive portion of the money at Atchison's discretion, I never heard from Byrne or O'Connor whether they received the money or not. In fact, I did not trouble my head about it. But I heard from Boardman that Farrell said he had not received any money, yet I did not attach much importance to it. These things are apt to go out of one's head. I did not attach sufficient importance to it to say anything to Atchison about it. The view I took was this : Although I bad mentioned these names, it was merely because I thought they had something to do with the matter, and it struck me that perhaps Farrell had not had so much to do with tho matter, and that only Atchison and the officers had any claim. 851. If you knew as a matter of fact that Farrell had not got any money, would you be content ? —Not if it was put to me this way, that Farrell was deserving of something and got nothing; but if Inspector Atchison gave me an explanation, which he has not done yet, that Farrell was not entitled to any, then I should not grumble. 1 do not know what view Inspector Atchison entertains on the subject. 852. The point I want to get at is this : Did you leave it to his discretion ?—I did. 853. Mr. Swanson] Tou named these men. Did Atchison ever call upon you and tell you that Farrell was not entitled to it, and that ho had given some to these other men and had stuck to the rest himself ?—No. 854. Tou were never told that these men were undeserving ? —No. 855. Tou were left under the impression that it was quite right—that these men deserved something, that you had given it to the Inspector, and that it was served out? —Well, although 1 mentioned these men's names, it did not concern me.