(J.—2.

all I have to say on that matter. There is a block of land on this side of the Waingongoro called Turangatapuae, which has been a subject of dispute amongst the Maoris. It was made a reserve by Sir Donald McLean in 1873, but no record has been kept by the Government of the matter. But Sir Donald McLean wrote a letter authorizing Captain Blake to fix this reserve for Toi Whakataka and others. Since then, however, the matter has dropped ; and the Natives are dissatisfied, feeling that they have not been dealt with fairly in the matter. I shall read a copy of the memorandum from Sir Donald McLean to Captain Blake, dated Bth February, 1873, instructing him to fix this reserve, and also another reserve for Pepeheke. [Memorandum read.] Captain Blake informed Mr. Mackay of all the circumstances of the case when the latter gentleman was made Special Commissioner, and the matter was placed in Mr. Sheehan's hands, who said it was clear enough. 212. The Commissioners, to Major Browni] Tou have heard the statement made to the Commission by Wiremu Pokiha. Are we to understand you to bave intended that the 10,000-acre reserve was to include tbe two pieces of land of 1,000 acres each which were set aside by Sir Donald McLean's memorandum for Pepeheke and Whakataka ? —Yes. 213. Then the boundary of your 10,000-acre reserve, beginning at Onewaia, and going at right angles from the 500-acre reserve towards Araukuku, would leave out a piece of land between that line and the Waingongoro Eiver ? —-Tes. 214. Why could not the piece of land towards the Waingongoro Eiver have been included in that ? —Because the Okahu and Kanihi Natives objected to it, as their interest was in that land ; and they were allowed to take compensation for it. 215. But now would you see any objection to laying out two pieces of 1,000 acres each, or one piece of 2,000 acres, for these particular people of the Ahitahi, separate from your large reserve, so as to fulfil Sir D. McLean's arrangement ? —I see no objection to it, if the Natives wish it. But they will get more than that by my present arrangement. Their share of the 10,000 acres will come to more than that. 216. Practically, it would be better for them if they shared ultimately in the land which you have set aside, than if the Commission were now to say that effect should be given to this promise of Sir Donald McLean's ?—Tes. 217. (To Wiremu Pokiha.) Now that you have heard Major Brown, what do you say ? The evidence of Major Brown yesterday was that he made a reserve of 10,000 acres, which was to include all promises of outlying reserves. The reserve was surveyed and found to contain 16,000 acres, which is 6,000 acres beyond wdiat Major Brown proposed, and that amount may have to be taken off. What do you think is hest for those in whom you are interested: to adhere to the proposal made by Sir Donald McLean, or to take your share in the large reserve ? If you wish to have the 1,000 acres laid off for the people you are interested in, and 1,000 acres for the other people of Ahitahi, say so; but, if not, according to what Major Brown says, it would evidently be better for the people you are interested in to take their share in the 10,000-acre reserve. By-and-by, when it is individualized, you will get more than the 2,000 acres; you will get 4,000 or 5,000 acres, perhaps ? —I will leave it in that position, for the tribe. 218. Then you would rather that their interest should be left in the 10,000-acre reserve which is proposed ?—I would rather have it subdivided. 219. If you want the Commission to give effect to Sir Donald McLean's promise, the course that will be adopted will be that the land will be surveyed as Sir Donald McLean directed, namely, 1,000 acres for Pepeheke's people, and 1,000 acres for Whakataka's people : they will get no more. And then the effect of that will be that the rest of the tribes —the Ngatitupaea and the Ngatitanewai—will come in for the greater portion, because you will receive less than if you waited for your share in the subdivision of the 10,000-acre reserve. Tbis Commission cannot subdivide the large reserve now, but it can give effect to Sir Donald McLean's promise. It seems evidently for your advantage that you should wait and share in the subdivision of the large reserve. Perhaps you had better tako a little time to consider the matter, and talk with your people about it ?—Yes ; we will talk the matter over. Katene, of Werivveri, examined. 220. The Commissioners.] Do you remember Major Brown telling you what the size of the reserve would be for the Ahitahi, Ngatitupaea, and Ngatitanewai ? —Yes. 221. How many acres was it then stated were to be contained in the reserve ? —lO,OOO. 222. But if, when it was surveyed, it turned out to be more, what was to be done ?—After it was surveyed I heard that it came to 16,000 acres. 223. Do you understand what is to be done with the excess of 6,000 acres ?—Major Brown gave us to understand that we were to get 10,000 acres. 224. Do you remember Major Brown saying that if the area exceeded 10,000 acres it would be reduced to that size; and that if it were less it would be brought up to 10,000 acres ?—He explained all those things to us. 225. Katene: What lam about to say is to follow what has been said about these 10,000 acres. Tangiwa is the name of the kahikatea tree which is tho boundary of the block. To Uene is a pa in a clearing inland, belonging to Hoke. This is an old boundary line. Araukuku is on one side, and Okahu and Kanihi on the other. This was the boundary line decided upon by Major Brown and Pepe ;it was to be the boundary of the 10,000 acres running inland. This boundary line is called Aowhenua. Waingongoro is on one side and Te Uene on the other. We decided this, and went into the question at Ngarongo. We all assembled there. Patuwaerua was there—he is a Hauhau belonging to Te Whiti; also Te Iki, who is now a prisoner ; and Tauke, who is also a follower of Te Whiti. These people, who are chiefs of Okahu, are now Hauhaus, and also Bangitautahi. I then heard wdiat Major Brown said. I was not the only one, for the whole people heard what Major Brown had to say. I and Heke both spoke, and wished the boundary line to be taken back to Waingongoro, but they did not agree to this. We still persisted in asking that the boundary line should be taken back to Waingongoro, like the blocks for Araukuku. But the people for whom this reserve was to be made did not agree to it, because they claimed the land down to the river, and on account

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