G.—2.

have been also concerned in the ploughing, perhaps?—Tes; some of them. Some have kept aloof. Some have engaged in the ploughing, and indirectly have worked against the Government. 1071. Do you regard that as a repudiation of their obligation ? —No. Some of them are like Manaia; only, they will take the money, while Manaia will not. They are not so straightforward and upright as Manaia; they have run with the hare and hunted with the hounds. 1072. Taken the money, and then turned the surveyors off?—No ; they would not do that. Titokowaru was present while the surveyors were being removed the first time, but his presence was unavoidable. He would not have been there if he could have helped it. 1073. Did you not say that some of the other chiefs had joined in the ploughing ?—They were lukewarm. 1074. Still, w ras it not the fact that they took the money, and then assisted to turn the surveyors off?-—No; but they were powerless to stop the removal of the surveyors. The takoha did not control events in any way., The money we paid did not control the question, when it came to a pinch. 1075. So that when you come to settle up the question of the Waimate Plains, your money will go for nothing ?—Tes, practically. 1076. Then, in fact, while it was a sort of blackmail, to keep them quiet, it has not kept them quiet ? —No. 1077. As part of the same system, and connected with the list of payments on account of the Waimate Plains, we find a few items about which we wish to ask you. Takiora Dalton, who, apparently, also appears in the list as Lucy Grey, has received £325 12s. 6d. during the last two years. In what capacity did she receive that money? —Part in respect of her claims, and part as salary, when Mr. Sheehan ordered her to be put on pay at £10 per month. 1078. To be put on pay for what ? —For reporting any information that came in her way from the Waimate Plains. 1079. Had she been employed in a similar capacity before ? —Tes. 1080. While holding a Government appointment ? —No; but she stated before the Commission that the land at Hikutere was given to her for her services by Sir Donald McLean. That land was sold, I think, for £400. 1081. What kind of services do you yourself consider that Mrs. Dalton is capable of performing: can she influence the sale of the Waimate Plains ? —No; but, for instance, she came to me and said, " I had a letter from Blake, and he is coming up with Brissenden next month, and they are going in to buy the Ngaere Swamp ;" so I immediately made a payment on account and had it gazetted, and that shut them out. I was afraid that, if Brissenden got his finger in the pie outside the confiscation line, I should not know where to stop him. 1082. The payments to. Harerota of £140, and to Mere Hawaiki, are of the same nature, are they not? —Yes ; for the purpose of getting information for the service of the Government. 1083. Have you seen a letter, which is in the possession of the Government, addressed to Mrs. Dalton by E. T. Blake ?—Tes. 1084. Do you know his handwriting? —Tes ; the letter produced is in the handwriting of Captain Blake. It is as follows : " Whanganui, 9th September, 1877. —(Extract.) —Never mind about your share. Watch for the other side ; nothing must go across there. Brown is very whakahihi; but you and I can't be much good if we can't stop his game. Tou watch and stop things till I get up. . . Why should the Natives care for Brown ? Let him rip, and you stick to the land Watch Te Ngaere: keep that out of Government hands. We can make a fortune out of that, and you are one of the principal owners there.—E. T. Blake." 1085. Was the person to whom that letter was addressed Mrs. Takiora Dalton ?—Tes. She handed me the letter in presence of Captain Wilson, whom I asked to attach his signature to the letter at tbe time in order to verify it. That will give you some idea of the kind of difficulties I have had to deal with from persons in receipt of Government pay, and out of it; or who, as in the case of Captain Blake, had a promise of £500 to assist me. 1086. There are one or two other payments which it seems to us ought not to be in this Waimate Plains account. For instance, a person named Sherrin receives £10 : who and what is he ? —That did not pass through me. I know nothing about it. 1087. It was not, as far as you know, connected with the Waimate Plains ? —No. 1088. There are two sums paid to Mr. James Mackay, of £300 and £100. The £300 is charged against Waimate Plains, and the £100 against Patea. Are you aware for what services he received those sums ? —For services performed when he was sent up as Commissioner. After the stoppage of the surveys, he was sent to report upon the whole question of the Waimate Plains ; and I had instructions that, while he was so engaged, neither myself nor any of my officers were to go across the Waingongoro Eiver, or interfere with him in any way. 1089. Are you aware how long he was employed on that service ?—No ; I am not. 1090. Have you read his reports which are published in the Parliamentary Papers ?—I think I have. 1091. We want to ask you whether he did give, or was capable of giving, the Government any information which they might not have obtained from you and Mr. Parris ? —No. 1092. There is a £50 gratuity to Mr. Blake in the account: what is that ?—That refers to the Captain Blake who accompanied Mr. Mackay to Parihaka. 1093. There are one or two other payments, to which there is no objection to make in themselves, but in regard to which it is a question whether they are properly applicable to Waimate Plains. Mr. Thompson appears as interpreter : was he interpreter specially for the Waimate Plains ?—Tes, interpreter to the surveys; he wrent from camp to camp. 1094. Tour own travelling allowance is charged to the Waimate Plains: but as you are Commissioner for the whole coast, should not the charge have been distributed ? —lt is charged to the block in regard to which the largest payment appears ; and it is supposed to rectify itself. For instance, on other occasions it is charged to the Moumahaki, and sometimes paid in connection with Waingongoro.

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