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442. Did ycra not come to my office, and in my presence do business with these people in regard to the moneys you were to receive for Wi Apo's share ?—After the money was put into the bank ? 443. Tes ? —No ; because I was vexed at your taking away the bank slip from us. 444. Did you not there and then sign that document in my office [document shown to witness] ? —After looking at the signature, I know I did not sign the cheque. 445. Tou had better look at the signature again. It might go further ?—I was displeased at your taking away the bank paper from me, and I went home the next day. 446. Look at the signature. What about that ? —I never signed it. 447. Do you say so ? —I did not sign the cheque. 448. Is that your writing, anyhow?—l cannot tell this writing. 449. Will you swear that is not your signature ? —All I know is that I never signed a cheque, whether iv the bank or Mr. Sheehan's office. I never signed the cheque. 450. Do you swear that is not your signature —I will leave it there then? —That is not like my signature. 451. I want to know whether that is your signature ?—I did not sign my name to this cheque. 452. Now, did you not go to the bank that same day and draw the proceeds of that cheque on the same day that it was signed?—l did not sign the cheque ; I did not go to the bank to draw any money. 453. Did you bring any money to Auckland with you when you came down ?—When a man goes to Auckland he brings with him £5 or £10. 454. Then you brought with you simply money to pay your expenses ? —Tes. 455. And how much money do you admit receiving from Mr. Brissenden and Mr. Nelson out of the proceeds of the sale at that time ? —MI I know is that out of the £450 they were paying I got £50, and I got £25 at his house. 456. Did you not buy a number of things in Auckland at that time ?—I did not buy anything in Auckland, because I always get my clothes made, and I had not time to buy anything. 457. Were you not in the shop of Mr. Olliver, Queen Street, on that day, with a handkerchief full of sovereigns ? —I do not know that. 458. If Mr. Olliver says so will you deny it ?—Mr. Olliver would not say that. 459. But if he says so will you deny it ? —Tes, I will deny it. 460. When did you first ascertain that this money had disappeared ?—I cannot remember the date, but it was when Mr. Gittos and myself went to Auckland. 461. Was that after you gave the cheque for £20 ?—Tes. 462. Was it long after ? —Tes ; it was some time after signing the cheque that Mr. Gittos and I came to Auckland. 463. Can you give us any idea of the time —the year and the month ? —lt was one year afterwards. Mr. Gittos came to me and said to me, " I could not get money from Mr. Sheehan for this cheque ; and while I was there the steamer went away." When it was ascertained that the money had disappeared Mr. Gittos and I went to Auckland. 464. Who ascertained ?—The Commissioner told Mr. Grittos that the money had gone. Mr. Gittos asked the Commissioner who took it, and he said, "Arama Karaka." That was me. 465. Are you speaking now of the inquiry held by Colonel Haultain ?—lt was ascertained there. Mr. Gittos said to me, "Is it true that you have taken the money from the bank ?" I said, " No." 466. Tou are travelling somewhat far ahead. Tou said the cheque was given in 1874, and you ascertained after that that the money had gone ? —Tes. It was when I told Mr. Gittos that I did not take the money that we both went together to the Commissioner's office. 467. But was not that a long while afterwards ? Was it a year after the cheque had been given to Mr. Gittos ?—Tes. 468. How long afterwards was the inquiry by Colonel Haultain?—We went to the Commissioner, and he and Mr. Gittos went to the bank to see whether I had used that money. They found that I had not. Mr. Gittos can tell you this. 469. Was that the first time that you found that the £20 cheque had not been paid ?—Tes. 470. The very first time that you heard that?— Mr. Gittos had told me about it at a time before this. 471. How long before ? —I cannot say how long before. 472. Was it because of Mr. Gittos telling you about the £20 cheque that you both came to Auckland?— That was the cause of our coming to Auckland. 473. It might have been long before, I presume ?—lt might have been. 474. Have you, since this land went through the Court, ever paid me any money on account of the estate ? —No, I never paid you any money. 475. Have I ever asked you for money ? —-No. 476. Have you ever had to pay a single sixpence in connection with the estate through me ?—I do not know anything about that. 477. When you ascertained that these moneys were gone, as you say, did you take any legal action for the purpose of finding out what had become of them ? —I did not know how to take any legal action about these moneys; all I know is that the matter was left in Mr. Gittos's hands. 478. Then you brought no action against me ?—No. 479. Tou did not apply to me ?—No. 480. Down to the present time ? —Down to the present time. 481. Mr. Wafcefield.~] Tou became the co-trustee with Mr. Sheehan for the children of Wi Apo in 1874, did you not ?—Tes. 482. Did you understand that the trustees had funds in their hands out of the moneys in the bank ? —I do not know. 483. Did you understand what the nature of the trust was ? —I did not understand the nature of the trust. I did not appoint Mr. Sheehan to be trustee. It was Te Kiri and others who appointed him. I objected to him, and wanted myself to be trustee for the children of my relatives.

Arama Karaka. Aug. 4, 1880.