I.—3a.

20

Arama Kardkg. Aug. 4, 1888.

602. Did you see it paid ? —Yes ; the money was on the table. 603. At the Club ?—Yes. 604. Who was it paid to ?—£4so was given to Hori te More, and £450 was handed to me as Wi Apo's share. 605. Did Hori te More go with you to the bank with the other share ?—No. 606. Do you know what he did with his money ? —I have heard that he told Mr. Gittos that his money had been lost, though it was taken to the same bank; but I did not see him go there. 607. Did Mr. Brissenden go to the bank ?—I do not know of his having gone there. 608. Did you know Mr. Nelson before ?—Yes. 609. Have you met him since ? —Yes ; I have seen him. I saw him, but not to speak to. .1 just bid him good day. 610. You have never spoken to him about this money since ?—No, because the money had been taken, and I had put the matter into Mr. Gittos's hands. 611. You said you were very much displeased at Mr. Sheehan taking the slip from you in the bank : did you claim your right to have the slip ?—I did. 612. What did Mr. Sheehan say ? —Mr. Sheehan said, " Leave it with me." I said, " No; give it to me." But he went away with it. Mr. E. J. Griiij, Under-Secreta>ry, Native Land Purchase, examined. 613. The Chairman.] Mr. Sheehan wished that Mr. Gill would show the Committee the signatures to an original document. Perhaps Mr. Gill will be good enough to show that now. What is this document ?—lt is an agreement to sell Pakiri Block. 614. Is this the original document ? —lt is. 615. Who has charge of it?— The Crown Lands Department. 616. You have brought it direct from them ?—I have brought it direct from them now. 617. And this purports to be the signature of Arama Karaka Au Tutu ?- —It is. 618. You have no reason to suppose it is not genuine ?—The signature purports to be witnessed by Mr. Nelson and Mr. Brissenden. 619. Sir William Fox.'] Who is that document prepared by?—l might recognize the handwriting. 620. Was it a Government document —was it prepared in a Government office ? —I believe it is in Mr. Nelson's handwriting. 621. Who and what is Mr. Nelson ?—He is an officer engaged in the Land Purchase Department at present. 622. Is he in the Government service ? —Yes. 623. Has he been long so? —He has been so more or less since 1874. 624. Was he at the time of this document?—He was connected with Mr. Brissenden. 625. Both being Government officers at the time ?—Acting temporarily, not in the Civil Service. Mr. Brissenden was paid by commission, and had sufficient commission allowed him to pay Mr. Nelson a salary. I would say that the Government have had two deeds of agreement to sell Pakiri, one dated 1873 and one 1874. That is the 1874 one. They both have been signed, or purport to have been signed, by Arama Karaka. That appears to be witnessed by Colonel McDonald.

Mr. M. J. Gill Aug. 4, 1880.

Thtjesdax, sth August, 1880. Adam Clabk (Arama Karaka), recalled at the request of Mr. Sheehan, and re-examined. 626. Mr. Sheehan.] I am going to ask you about the application of the moneys paid to you and me by Nelson and Brissenden. Did you not receive out of these moneys £100, being the amount paid by you for the survey of the block? —I explained yesterday that that was a separate amount, £50, I got of this other money. 627. Did you not receive £100, no matter where it came from—did you not get back your £100 at the time?—l have already explained to you I have got back the money for the survey, £75. 628. Will you tell us how you got it back ?—I got £50 out of the land money, and £25 I received from Mr. Nelson. 629. That accounts for money to the amount of £75. Then, what about the other £25 f —l understood that that was Te Hemara's. 630. Then you say that you. did not receive yourself, for yourself, £100 on account of tfte surv,ey ? —I did not receive £100. 631. You are quite clear about that ?—Yes. 632.. Then, if other people come forward and contradict that statement, and say-that you got the money, what do you say to that ? —They can say what they like. I say what I have already said. 633. I am not putting the question offensively, but simply in order to give you a chance, if your memory will help you, of putting this matter right. What about the other £25 ? —All I know is that I received £75. 634. The total amount you received was £450, was it not ?—£4oo was taken to the bank. 635. I want you to answer the question. The total amount you had to receive was £450 ?—Yes ; that is right. 636. Then, if you had got £75 on account of the survey, how could you have had £400 to take to the bank? —The total was £450. I received of that, £50 ; then I thought to myself that the £20 I had received previous to this was a part of the £100. 637. Do you not know that at the time you were paid these moneys that £25 was deducted? —That was a separate sum. Tohui got £25, and-1 got £25. That is £50. We received it the night before. The next day I got £50. 638. That is £75 you got on account of the survey ?—Yes. 639. Then you say that out of the £100 for the survey Te Hemara got £25 ?—Yes.

Arama Karaka, Aug. 5, 1880.