I.—2a

40

Mr. C. E. kelson. Aug. 17,1880.

1107. Is that the reputation he holds in the North ? —I cannot say what his general reputation is. 1108. What reputation has he among the Natives in the North ? —He has the reputation of being a very hard, selfish man. 1109. Has he a reputation for being untruthful ? —No, I think not. 1110. Amongst the Natives ?—I do not know that Natives as a rule pass any opinion among themselves. 1111. Among Europeans what character has he? —"Well, he does not get a good opinion in Auckland, because he borrows a good deal of money, gives promissory notes, and never meets them when they are due. 1112. You say it is twenty-two years since you knew him : where you living there then ?—Yes. 1113. Where? —In this country—in Kaipara. 1114. Was that the time you had a publichouse there ?—I had a publichouse about fourteen years ago for about five months, and during that time he bought a good deal of brandy in cases. 1115. Had you ever any other dealings with him ? —1 had dealings with him in other blocks of land. 1116. Did you find him dishonest then ? —He could not be dishonest, because I had to pay him the money. 1117. Are you living in Kaipara now ? —No ; in Auckland. 1118. Have you anything to do with that district now: are you in constant communication with it ?—I am occasionally. 1119. Have you any dealings with the Natives there ? —Yes, constantly. 1120. Have you had any dealings with Arama Karaka since? —Yes; in the subdivision of Pakiri Block, five weeks ago. 1121. Has he spoken to you about this money ? —Never. 1122. Has Mr. dittos spoken to you about it ? —Never. 1123. About any business ? —About no business. 1124. The Chairman.'] If I have understood you aright, you say that Adam Clark wanted to get away early in the morning, and that time pressed ?—Did 1 say eai'ly in the morning ? I did not come in till about 12 o'clock. 1125. That time pressed, and he wanted to get away early in the morning ?—Yes, the following morning. 1126. But that the bank closed at 3 o'clock ?—That was my impression, and that Mr. Brissenden gave me a cheque to get the money. 1127. In looking at your evidence yesterday this is what you stated [paragraphs 939 and 940 of evidence quoted]. Now, this is what I want you to clear up if you can: This, you say, was in the morning; but lam not anxious to bind you to that ? —At the Superintendent's office Mr. Sheehan asked me to find Adam Clark. It was not in the morning. I remember distinctly I came in late. 1128. Ido not want to press you upon that; but according to what you stated to-day you went to Oliver's shop, and there you found Adam Clark, and Adam Clark and you went to the bank—with Mr. Brissenden's cheque, I presume ? —Yes. 1129. Now, would it not have been as easy to find Adam Clark with Mr. Sheehan's cheque ? Would it not have been as easy to have taken this cheque to get Adam Clark's signature, and then have gone to the bank, as first to find Adam Clark and cash Mr. Brissenden's cheque ? What was the object of taking Mr. Brissenden's cheque when Adam Clark's own signature might have been got any moment between 2 o'clock and the closing* of the bank ?—Now you are asking me for the reasons of the conduct of other men, and lam only going to give you my impressions. Of course, lam not a clairvoyant. To draw money from the trust fund the signatures of Adam Clark and John Sheehan would be necessary. Assuming that I did not find Adam Clark, I could then go and draw the £200, the proceeds of Mr. Brissenden's cheque, pay Adam Clark, get his signature to another cheque, and that would square the account. That is simply my impression. Assuming I did not find Adam Clark until after 3 o'clock, I could not possibly draw the money on. Sheehan's cheque ; but if I had Brissenden's cheque I could draw it at any time before 3 o'clock, pay that money to Adam Clark, get his signature to the other cheque, and let him get away in the morning. 1130. Mr. Sheehan.'] Do you not remember that the Provincial Council was in session ?—Yes, I remember. 1131. That I was Provincial Secretary ?—Yes, I think so. We used to go up there for you. Of course, this again is an impression of mine. When I say Ido not know, but I believe, they are simply impressions. When I give evidence as to facts of course I state the truth, omitting " I believe "or " I think." I hold truth to be accuracy of knowledge and logical inference therefrom. 1132. When you were asked by Sir William Fox whether you were present when the Judge asked me to become a trustee in the estate you replied that you were not present ? —I did nothing of the kind. It was in my house that Mr. Kogan asked you. 1133. Were you in the Court when the matter was settled that Adam Clark and I should be trustees ? —Yes. 1134. Did he object then ?—No. 1135. Has he ever objected since ?—No, not to my knowledge. 1136. Do you know of your own knowledge whether or not Adam Clark bought any things in Auckland during his stay at that time ? —He had some things. I saw him sending some carpet-bags and some furniture down to the steamer. I remember distinctly the furniture. 1137. Do you know of your own personal knowledge that he bought these things, and where he bought them ? —I do not know where he bought them, but he would likely buy them at Mr. Oliver's. Mr. Oliver was dealing with the Natives at that time. Nearly all the Natives went to his shop and to Mr. Keesing's. 1138. Was the Pakiri Block awarded to three people ?—Yes —to Eahui, Panapa, and Wi Apo.