I.—2a.

44

1224. And Mr. Nelson had to leave the Awaroa to go hack and bring Hori te More ?—Yes. 1225. Did not you and Adam Clark both know he had gone to bring Hori te More about the Pakiri Block ?—Yes. 1226. How long was Nelson away fetching Hori te More? —He went away in the night, and he was back next morning. 1227. Then you say you left for Auckland ?—Yes ; towards evening we went to Riverhead on our way to Auckland by horse. 1228. Did you, Adam Clark, Hori te More, and Nelson understand that you were going to Auckland for the purpose of settling about the Pakiri Block ? —Yes. 1229. Then, if Adam Clark has said that he never heard anything about the sale of Pakiri until that meeting in the hotel at Waiariki, is that statement true ?—That would be a false statement of Adam Clark's. He said nothing at the time about that. All he talked about was the money. 1230. But, supposing he has said to the Committee before you came down that he never heard anything about the sale of Pakiri Block until they met in the hotel, would that be true ?—I would not understand any statement of that nature by Adam Clark. It would not be correct. 1231. You have told us that you signed the agreement as a witness ?—Yes. 1232. I think you speak Maori ? —Yes ; I understand it, 1233. And Adam Clark also ?—Yes. 1234. And Hori te More ?—He cannot read Maori. 1235. But he can talk it ?—Yes. 1236. And Mr. Nelson and myself ?—Yes ; you know it. 1237. Did not the whole of our talk take place in the Maori language ?—Yes ; everything was said in Maori. It was not in the European language. 1238. If the agreement is produced with Arama's signature attached to it, and shows that it is an agreement, on the part of Adam Clark and myself for Wi Apo, and Hori te More for Panapa, to sell two shares in the Pakiri Block for £1,600, of which £800 was to be paid into the bank, would that be in accordance with what you heard in the discussion ?—Yes, it would be in accordance. 1239. It would be quite in accordance with the previous verbal settlement ?—Yes. 1240. Did you see Adam Clark next day, or before you left Auckland ?—Yes-, I saw him. 1241. Did you see him in possession of any money?' —Yes; he had money, and I saw him go out of Oliver's. 1242. You saw him with a sum of money at Oliver's house ? —I did not go into Oliver's house I saw him outside the house, and he had some money in his hand. He had not the money in his hand, but in his pocket; and he intimated to me, moving his hand this way, that he was going to take some money for the children. 1243. Did Adam Clark tell you that he had received money for the survey that he had previously paid ? —All I know is, that he declared he would take £150 for the survey, and that all agreed at the time. 1244. Do you remember whether you saw Adam buy any goods in Auckland at that time ?—No. I had gone to the steamer, and left him there. 1245. You are quite clear that the total amount which was payable to Adam Clark at that settlement was £300 ?—Yes, £300. I saw the money with my own eyes. 1246. And if, out of that amount, £150 was paid for survey and £50 for other purposes, making £200, there would be a balance of £100 ?—Yes, that would leave £100. 1247. If there were £100 left in the bank, would that be correct ?—Yes ; if there is £100 in the bank I should say that that would be a correct balance. That is assuming he had paid £150 and the other £50, and placed £100 in the bank. 1248. Do you remember the first Court in 1869, when this block was put through ?—Yea; I know that I was there. 1249. Do you remember Mr. Gittos being present ? —Yes, Mr. Gittos was there. He was the minister preaching there. 1250. Do you know Mr. Gittos very well? —Yes, I know him. He is the minister of Kaipara. 1251. Do you know where he lives ? —He lives at Otamatea. 1252. Does he live far from Adam Clark? —The distance would be from here to the other end of the town. His place would be at the other end ; the other place here. 1253. "With a river between ? —Yes. 3254. Who is Adam Clark's pakeha—his kaiwliahdliaere ? —Mr. Gittos. 1255. How long has he been so?— Prom before the Government of Sir Donald McLean. 1256. Does not Mr. Gittos manage Adam Clark's business and his land-matters ? —Yes; Mr. Gittos manages. 1257. Does he not sell and lease land for Adam Clark?—"When land is sold by Adam Clark and the people, Mr. Gittos goes there. He is present; and he takes the money and keeps it. 1258. There are two statements before the Committee, made by Mr. Gittos and by Adam Clark— two different statements: Mr. Gittos says that he never heard of the survey of the Pakiri Block, of the investigation of the Court, or anything at all about it until 1874; Adam Clark says he told Mr. Gittos about the survey, told him when he was going down to attend the Court in 1869, and told him when he went back from the Court what had been done about the land with myself, and he also told him about the sale of the land when he went back from Auckland in 1873. Now, which of these statements do you think is the correct one? —'Adam Clark's would be the truthful statement. 1259. Do you think it possible for Mr. Gittos to have been present at the place without knowing this piece of land was going through the Court ? —That would be according to his own statement; but, according to what I know and what I think, and what the people think, he was present, and he knew what was going on in the Court. He is never absent from any of the Courts; he is always there to preach to the people. 1260. The Chairman.'] "When you saw Adam Clark coming out of Oliver's shop, was Nelson there? -—I did not see Mr. Nelson ; I saw Adam when he came out of the store,

Te Hemara TauMa. Aug. 19, 1880.