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300. Mr. Sutton.] What are the duties of the office for which Mr. Bayly is not responsible: does the office appoint and remove Inspectors?—The Minister does that on the recommendation of the Superintending Inspector, approved by the Governor. Office work consists of preparing returns and attending to departmental details. 301. Do you not think that the Chief Inspector would be the best man to do that work? —One man could not do the whole of the work. It is all done through the Under-Secretary. The Superintending Inspector has often to be absent for weeks, and if he had to attend to office detail the work would come to a standstill. 302. How many men are employed by the department in doing that work ? —There is one clerk at Christchurch, and another in Marlborough, and I do it here. 303. Is it not a fact that at the present time there are as many complaints about scab as there ever were in the Wairarapa, and that the settlers consider that scab is on the increase in that district ? —The Wairarapa settlers say so, but they will not put their complaints in writing. They will not inform against each other. 304. Mr. J. M~cKenzie.] The Inspectors are governed to a certain extent by the Orders in Council ? —Yes. 305. Mr. J. Green!] Would it harmonize with the Order in Council if the Inspectors employed somebody to kill diseased sheep without communicating with the department ? —Yes, provided that it could be done without expense to the public. In Marlborough the settlers clubbed together and killed seven hundred diseased sheep at their own expense. 306. The Chairman.] Mr. Telford, in his evidence, says that one reason why the scab spread in the bush he referred to was that the scabby sheep were long-tailed, and that though he asked the Government to give him permission and assistance to kill these sheep they would not do so. They would not allow him to employ men to destroy the sheep ? —Yes, but not at the public expense. 307. He states that the scab originated in this district in consequence of the Government declining to employ two men to destroy the sheep he had complained of? —All I can say is that Mr. Telford went over this very land to look for scabby sheep, and when he came back he reported that he could not find any. 308. From whom did the communication to Mr. Telford about his removal come? —From the Under-Secretary. 309. Had you any conversation with the Minister about the matter ?—I do not think I had. 310. Was there any minute put upon it ? —Yes ;by the Minister. 311. After your conversation with him, or before? —At the time, I believe. 312. Who was the Minister at the time? —Mr. Hall. I may say that any cause for the removal would be minuted on the papers. 313. Then we are to assume that Mr. Hall, who was at that time in charge of the Sheep Department, was in effect Chief Inspector of sheep ?—Yes. 314. And that he acted on his own motion in that capacity to deal with this special case ? —Yes.

Fbiday, July 14th, 1882. Mr. G. S. Cooper, Under-Secretary, examined. 315. The Chairman.'] You. are Under-Secretary in the Colonial Secretary's Department? —1 am. 316. What position do you hold in the Sheep Department ? —lt is a branch of the Colonial Secretary's Department, and I do not actively conduct the business of it myself. Mr. Maunsell is in charge of tho Live Stock Acts, and he has been the medium of communication between the officers of the department and the Government. As a rule Ido not deal with papers relating to sheep and rabbits until they have been before the Minister. I, as Under-Secretary, am simply the medium of communication between all sub-departments and the Government. 317. And you are the mouthpiece of the Minister in giving instructions ? —Yes. I may say that when the Sheep Department was first initiated Sir George Whitmore was Colonial Secretary ; and, as soon as the session was over in 1878, he told me that he had undertaken the administration of the Sheep Act. He said that putting the machinery in motion would involve a great deal of work which he did not wish to put on my shoulders, and that he had determined to appoint his Private Secretary, Mr. Maunsell, to do it. He said also that Mr. Maunsell would be under me and would relieve me of much of the work. Until lately Mr. Maunsell has done all the work, but since Mr. Bayly was appointed Superintending Inspector he does all the outdoor work, and Mr. Maunsell the indoor. 318. Who do you consider the permanent head of the department?' —I consider tliat I occupy that position. Mr. Bayly is responsible for the Inspectors doing their work. The indoor work is done by Mr. Maunsell, under me, and by the Minister's direction. 319. Then Mr. Maunsell takes his instructions from you? —He generally takes his instructions from the Minister directly, but sometimes he takes them from me. 320. I understand that the permanent head of a department is a person who gives instructions to all his subordinates ? —Yes, that is so. 321. And I understand also, that it is not the custom for a Minister to communicate instructions to his subordinates without first referring to the permanent head of the department ?—Yes, that is the usual rule. 322. Now with regard to the two sub-heads, Mr. Maunsell and Mr. Bayly, which is the superior officer? —I should say that Mr. Bayly was. He is the Superintending Inspector, and has control over the whole of the officers connected with the Sheep Department in the colony. Mr. Maunsell's position is that of a clerk in my office, charged with the conduct of the correspondence. 323. Is Mr. Bayly, as Superintending Inspector, in a position to give instructions to Mr. Maunsell, with any anticipation of their being attended to ? —-I can hardly say, because I really do no_t know. I should think Mr. Maunsell would not be at all likely to bring such a point to an issue. 324. Has Mr. Maunsell been informed that he is subordinate to Mr. Bayly ? —I do not know. I am not acquainted with what may have been the understanding between Mr. Maunsell and the Minister, and the relative positions of Mr. Maunsell and Mr. Bayly have not been defined to me.