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180. The Chairman.] After having the land five years, it is purchasable?—No; not for teri years; but after five years, residence is not compulsory. 181. At the end of ten years, if they turned your sheep off, or you wished to discontinue running them on the land, you could sue on your promissory notes ?—Yes. 182. And if you obtained judgment you could get the land?— No. They might not complete the purchase for fifteen years, but if they had obtained the land within the ten years, and I could not get my money otherwise, I should have a shot at the land. 183. Hon. Mr. Eolleston.] You can call up your promissory notes at any time ?—Yes. 184. Is there any reason to think they could meet them after the ten years ?—Certainly; because after that they might mortgage the lands, and pay off the notes with the proceeds. 185. The Chairman.] Supposing these notes ran on for fifteen years, and then remained unpaid, and you obtained judgment then upon them, you could then seize'the land, because the law would allow you to ?—Then I should certainly do it. The Chairman : Then the land is really the ultimate security. 186. Hon. Mr. Eolleston.] Would you be likely to lend thousands of pounds to any of these men unless you had that ultimate security?—l do not say. lam doing it. I may be foolish in doing it, but I am. 187. Would you lend it to the men unless they took up land?—l have offered men money to take up deferred-payment land. I have told them I would lend them money privately for that purpose, to help them. 188. But with the land remaining practically as security?— No. If they chose they could sell the land to any one else, as they have the right to; but I expect they would be honest enough to pay me off; but if they would not I could not help it. 189. The Chairman.] What land have you remaining after all that was sold at the late sale is taken up ? —There are about 13,000 acres left of the land not sold. About 22,000 acres have been taken up. Of course we have adjoining runs. 190. How many sheep to the acre will this Strath-Taieri land carry ?—I suppose about one and a half acres to a sheep. This is capital land ; better than the Silver Peak land. 191. Some of it fetched £2 6s. an acre ?—Yes. 192. Have these Silver Peak men who are under agreement with you any stock of their own ?— No sheep ; they have a few cows and horses. 193. Are any of them married men?— One of them, William Higgins. 194. Does his family live on the land ?—Yes ; they all live on the land. They have got stone houses most of them. 195. Mr. McMillan.] Have they been living continuously on the land?— Yes, as far as I know. It is twenty-five miles from the station, and I do not often go there, but I believe they live there constantly. • 196. Mr. Fulton.] You say it was Johnston who first suggested to the firm the taking-up of land in the Strath-Taieri ?—Yes ; some years ago. 197. Just prior to the application, did he suggest it then?—l think that would be a continuation of the former conversation. 198. Do you recollect when the arrangement was come to ?—As far as I know, it was when the land was taken up in the Silver Peak. All his bullocks died or were sold, and, as I had known him many years, I said then, if he would take up a deferred-payment section, if he could see a section to suit him, I would help him with money. I suppose he bore that in mind, and when he was about to take up a piece he asked me if I would help him, and I said I would. 199. How was the arrangement come to with Webb ?—I do not recollect. That is the only one I can recollect. 200. You cannot say whether Webb or the firm made the first proposals ?—No. 201. Can you say with regard to Fisher ?—Fisher came to me at the station, and asked if I would help him. 202. And as to McCaw ?—I cannot recollect as to him, but in all probability he came to me. I would not swear it. 203. With each of these men you have made the same arrangement ?—Yes. 204. Hon. Mr. Eolleston.] What is the sum you have advanced—the total?—A thirtieth of £30,000, about £1,000, I think. That is for all the men in the Strath-Taieri. In the Silver Peak I really forget the total, but it is the fifteenth of £9,000 a year. 205. Do you propose to go on making their payments—the Strath-Taieri men ?—I have no arrangement with them. 206. No arrangement as to the first payment ?—I have no instrument or agreement whatever with them. 207. Major Harris.] You have the grass for your sheep, and the moment your sheep were turned off you would stop payment ?—Yes. 208. Hon. Mr. Eolleston.] You have no promissory notes even for the Straith-Taieri men ?— No. 209. Mr. J. W. Thomson.] You take promissory notes from the Silver Peak men when you advance their instalments ; but you have the right of running your stock on the land as a quid pro quo for those advances. .Well, when the six months are up, and you have run your sheep on the land alHhat time, why should not the notes be cancelled? Why should they be retained so as to be a claim upoh'-the land at any time ?—The agreement exists between the men and myself, and we retain the promissory notes. 210. It does not seem a satisfactory, businesslike transaction ?—We charge no interest. The grazing is supposed to be for the interest. 211. Mr. J. McKenzie.] Why do you not take promissory notes from the Strath-Taieri men ? —They cannot get their licenses.