15

I.—B

459. When did you buy?—ln January, 1881. 460. What did you pay?—£l an acre. 461. What is the area?—4,l64 acres. 462. Have you been residing on the land ?— Yes. 463. What sort of a house have you ?—A three-roomed wattle-and-dab house. 464. Is the ground fenced ?—Not all of it. 465. How is it fenced?— There is about six miles of fence on it, and it will require about six miles more. 466. What is the land bounded by?—On one side it adjoins Gibson's section, and on the other side Charles Higgins's. 467. And there is a ring-fence round the lot? —Yes. 468. The three sections are in one fence?— Yes. 469. What use have you put the land to since you have had it ?—I have been running Gellibrand's sheep on it. 470. Have you any stock of your own? —Half a dozen head of cattle. 471. Dairy cattle or bullocks ?—Two dairy cattle, the others steers. 472. Have you ever paid any instalments for the land yourself ?—No. 473. Who has paid for you?—Cargill, Gibbs, and Co. 474. Have you not given promissory notes for it?— Yes. 475. In whose favour? —Gellibrand and Co. 476. Who gave them to you to sign ? —Mr. Bogson. 477. He has paid all the instalments, and the firm's sheep are running on the ground ?—Yes. 478. Do they pay anything for running their sheep there ?—No. 479. Then you are not compensated for grazing the sheep ?—No further than having the loan of the money without interest. 480. Then you borrow the money without interest, and Pogson runs his sheep without paying for the grazing?— Yes. 481. So that practically the land is in his possession at the present time ?—Yes. 482. What are your means of living?—l get a living by destroying rabbits on the ground, which was swarmed with them when I took it. 483. What do you make a year ?—About £120. 484. Are you a married man ?—No. 485. How do you hope ever to repay the money advanced ?—By improving the ground and burning off the scrub. 486. Suppose Pogson calls in the promissory notes before you are in a position to pay, how do you think you would meet them ?—I could not meet them. 487. Have you any property he could seize ?—Nothing to that extent, except the land. 488. In point of fact the land is really the security for the money ?—lt is in one sense. 489. That is to say there is nothing else on which he could recover payment ?—No. 490. Mr. Eolleston.] Did you make the proposal to borrow money from Gellibrand and Co. yourself ?—Mr. Pogson promised me assistance, if I required it, if I took up the land. 491. He came to you and said if you took up the land he would give you assistance ? —Yes. 492. On what understanding did he say he would do it?—lf I would allow his sheep to run on the land he would pay the instalments. 493. If you failed to agree upon the subject, what would be the result ?—He would call upon me for the money. 494. And. then ?—Then I cannot tell what I would do. 495. Had you any discussion with him as to how, ultimately, you would meet the liability to him ?—None whatever. 496. Mr. J. McKenzie.] Are you in the employment of Pogson at present ?—Not now. 497. Are you at any time in his employment ? —Yes ; in shearing time I am. 498. Is it not a fact that Pogson at present supplies you with rations ?—No. 499. If he says so, would you contradict it ?—Yes; I get my rations from a different part altogether. 500. Was there any arrangement made before you took up the land ?—No arrangement at all, any further than that he would assist me. 501. Did you not say just now that Pogson came to you and offered to give you assistance if you would allow his sheep to run there ?—Yes. 502. Was not that an agreement or arrangement ?—Yes. 503. Was it written or verbal ? —Verbal. 504. You made a declaration that the land was for your own exclusive use and benefit ?—Yes. 505. Do you think making this arrangement before you took up the land was in accordance with .'that declaration? —I believe it is. 506. Who told you so ? —No one. 507. Had you any advice except your own idea?—rNo; none whatever. 508. In the meantime you get no benefit from this land except killing rabbits?— That is all. 509. The Chairman.] And have not had since you took possession first?— No. 510. How much do you owe now on the block?— About £1,000., 511. Mr. Stevens.] What have you to represent that £1,000? —It has been expended on the land in instalments and fencing. 512. How many sheep would your land run if ring-fenced? —It is very high country, and would not carry many sheep in winter; in summer, perhaps, it would carry 1,500 or 2,000. 513. What do you reckon would be the total cost of land and fencing when all the instalments were paid?— About £6,000.