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383. Hon. Mr. P. A. Buckley.'] Your evidence has been directed altogether, I think, towards what we call elementary schools. Have you erected any schools for higher education in your diocese ?— A good many. There is a college for boys and a high school for girls at Dunedin, and high schools at Oamaru, Queenstown, and Invercargill. No donations have been received from the State towards the erection and maintenance of the schools at Oamaru, Invercargill, and Queenstown. We have received nothing from the State for any purpose; they are all supported by the voluntary contributions of the people. 384. Have you had any experience as to the result of teaching the Bible in the public schools? —I only know one thing, and that is a statement made by Dr. Moorhouse. He stated, in his evidence given before the Commission in Victoria, that one of the ablest and most zealous of his clergy went to a Government school to give Bible instruction. He had the class before him, and they read the Bible; and then he told them to-shut their Bibles while he interrogated them on what they had read. They did so, and showered the Bibles at his head. That is all I know of the result produced by the reading of the Bible in schools. 385. Mr. J. Buchanan.'\ Are the same facilities as to railways extended to Catholic children attending their schools as are afforded to children attending the State schools ?—I think they are all on a footing of equality at present. 386. Have you had any experience of the working of School Committees ?—No ; none except what I read in the public papers. 387. Then, you could not state whether they put in force the compiilsory clauses?—l have seen it stated in the newspapers that they passed a .resolution to that effect in Dunedin ; but I am under the impression that it has been equivalent to a dead-letter, or almost so, at all events, but I could not speak positively. 388. A question was put to you with reference to the effect of education. I think you said you did not hold that education prevented' crime ?—Yes, I did. I said I did not think it contributed to the prevention of crime. 389. Are you of opinion that it really changes rather than diminishes it ?—That is the result of my reading on the point. 390. And with reference to the question of Bible-reading in schools, would not your Church hold it as an infliction—a further disability—if that became compulsory, even if the conscience-clause were introduced ?—I would look upon a regulation to the effect that the Bible should be read by the teacher as a decided grievance. That would positively exclude every Catholic from teaching in the schools. 391. Hon. Mr. Acland.] You were asked a question with regard to whether you objected to free, secular, and compulsory education, would* you agree pn principle to the free and compulsory, without the secular ?—As applied to Eoman Catholics I would have no objection to that whatever. 392. With regard to sparsely-populated districts, in cases where the number of children was not twenty-five, taking the proportion of one in seven, there would be some Eoman Catholics in that district—in such cases would you think it desirable that the Catholic children should attend State schools or not attend them at all ? —I would prefer that, but that would be an exceptional case. 393. If the grants-in-aid were made on what you consider the principle of justice, would the Eoman Catholics attempt to establish schools in those districts where, say, the Eoman Catholic children did not exceed twelve ? That would depend on the circumstances of the case. If we found ourselves able to put a school there we would. 394. I have seen by the papers that insults have been offered to yourself and other members of the Eoman Catholic religion. Do you think the opposition is specially to Eoman Catholics, or is it rather in favour of infidelity ?—I would not be able to answer that question as Ido not know the motives of the people. 395. The opposition is, so far, shown mainly to Eoman Catholics ?—I cannot say as to the others. If you ask me what is to blame for it, I have no hesitation in saying that it is the unchristian tone of the system that is to blame for it. 396. Do you think that free, secular, and compulsory education has any tendency towards producing an increase of infidelity?—l am decidedly of that opinion. 397. Hon. Dr. Menzies.] I understood from what you said that you considered full justice to the Eoman Catholics would be to give them the same amount of aid as other children in the colony receive. In other words, that the funds should be equally distributed according to the number of children and the proficiency in the different schools. Then you went on further to say that, when the Government paid this subsidy, you should have the power of dismissing the teachers; that would apply equally to the other denominations?—We would not interfere with the others in the least. 398. I understand the principle laid down to be that, while the Government pay for the education of the children, the denominations would have the control over the teachers—have the power of dismissing them ?—The power of dismissing them for moral delinquencies—the same as under the National Board in Ireland. 399. What I failed to observe was whether the function of the Government extended any further than the simple payment ?—The Government, of course, would have power over the masters if they were inefficient, and did not properly discharge the duties of teaching the subjects for which they were paid. If the Government provided the funds to support the schools, of course they would have a very potent voice in the regulation of the schools. A Catholic school would cease to be a Catholic school if the authorities of the Church had no authority over it. 400. You consider it a matter of principle that you should have a concurrent power with the Government as regards the dismissal of teachers?—l think so. We should, of course, have teachers in the schools approved of by the authorities of the Church, otherwise they would cease to be Catholic schools; and the principles of the denominational system would be evaded altogether. What I would do as to Catholic schools is this : we would be prepared to satisfy the Government that they 4—l. 11.

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