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592. Suppose you had a country of that description, with ridges crossing these gullies, would it be possible to erect a fence nearly sheep-proof?— You could make it nearly sheep-proof. It would be necessary to have a man constantly repairing such fences—fencing a run such as Mr. Mcßae's, for instance. He has just such a fence as you speak of, crossing high spurs, and intersected by mountainous torrents. He simply had a man. constantly looking after these fences. He went along the fence repairing everything. This man never did anything else. The Inspector pushed us at Lyndon to such an extent, that once he came to a flock which he said was endangering a neighbour ;he said we must either remove them or dip them. He gave me the option to do as I liked. I got the sheep in and put them in another paddock. About ten days after he laid an information against us for not dipping, although he had given us the liberty to remove or dip them. 593. This would go to show that the Inspector was not carrying out the Act properly ?—He certainly was not carrying it out. Either he ought not to have given the liberty or he should not have laid an information against us for using it. I think he got his instructions from Mr. Bolton. He told me I must either remove or dip. I said, if I had the choice, I would remove them, and he said I might do as I liked. 594. I suppose it was something like this : Mr. Bolton assumed that he had the power to do so, and then found that he had not ?—That might have been the case when the Magistrate fined us for not having dip or material. My reason for not dipping was that there was another flock that was more scabby. I wanted to dip them first. It was simply a case of dipping the worst one first. I wanted the worst sheep dipped as soon as possible. We took delivery of the run on the 17th March, 1879. We got a clean certificate on the 30th April, 1880. These sheep had been scabby for twenty years. We were a little over twelve months in getting them clean. It cost a considerable amount of money. Mr. Tinline is not here. He could say what it cost him altogether. 595. It has been stated that if the Act were strictly enforced it would probably ruin several owners : do you think that should be a reason why the Act should not be strictly enforced ?—Certainly not. I know of several people who have been ruined already by their endeavours to comply with the provisions of the Act. I know Mr. Otterson, who is now in these parliamentary buildings. I know what took place in his case. He had to get rid of his run. The Inspector told him that his run was a standing menace to his neighbours, and insisted upon his spending a large sum. The Inspector pushed him to go at the instant into very large operations. If Mr. Otterson knew that he could have an extension of time he could have held on to his run. I asked Mr. Otterson, when I saw him to-day in these parliamentary buildings, whether I might mention the circumstance, and he told me I might. 596. Which was his run? —Mount Gladstone; that is also a very rough country—it is crossed by high spurs. If Mr. Otterson was allowed time he Would have been able to hold on for some time, until he was in a position to do what was necessary in the way of fencing. 597. Is that run clean now? —It is clean. If Mr. Otterson knew that he would be allowed to do as Mr. Gibson has been allowed to do—namely, spend the fines inflicted on him in putting up fencing—he would possibly have got through all right; but he thought he would be obliged to spend his money in fencing and be fined into the bargain. 598. At present I understand you to say that you are interested in another part of the country? —Yes; but what I contend for is : that after such exertions as we made to clean our country we ought to have derived some benefit from that. 599. Then, as far as I understand you, you wish to see the Act strictly carried out ? —Yes; as long as it was strictly carried out it worked very well. There appears, however, to have been a certain interregnum, and it is now going back. 600. It is stated in Mr. Passau's ietter that the bad season has something to do with it. What dip did he recommend ? —Mr. Bayly says a great deal of the scab is due to the use of patent dips. 601. Has he not power to insist on a proper dip?—l do not think he has; for a time he recommended Little's dip, but it was with a certain reservation. He recommended it for lice and tick. It was for a long time advertised as being recommended by Mr. Bayly. 602. Do you know whether he tested it in any way ?—I did not believe in it because it was used cold. Anybody could see that a cold dip could not be so effectual as a hot dip. But it was more convenient; it saved a great deal of trouble. 603. Are you in favour of giving power to Inspectors to recommend any dip ?—No ; I think any one who has experience must know that lime and sulphur can be the only certain means of cure. In this case the owners of sheep would not have used it if the Inspector had told them it was bad, but the Inspector highly approved of it. 604. For scab?— There was a reservation in the recommendation. It was for lice and tick. 605. Mr. Dodson.] Did not Mr. Mcßae give a certificate in favour of that dip?—l think Mr. Mcßae did give a testimonial. 606. Mr. Lance.) As a cure for scab ?—Yes ; but many people wanted a dip that could be used with cold water. Little's dip was used with cold- water, and those who used it were desirous of seeing it a success. 607. As to the Cloudy Range country : how long have you been interested in that country?— I think Mr. Wharton had it idle for five years. Mr. Wharton has been interested in it about seven years. Cloudy Range lies between Gibson's and Highfield's. They could not stock it for fear of scab. Mr. Lowe's country was scabby, and Mr. Tinline's country was scabby in all directions. We took it in hand about two years- ago. They had been mustering up carefully to make sure that all the sheep were off. We gave men £1 a head for every sheep they could get in, and they were out three months" and got ten sheep. It has cost us £100 a mile for fencing. We have been dipping and mustering repeatedly all the while. We have to go on dipping because of scab on our neighbour's run, which we join. We dip with lime and sulphur. The effect is that our wool has only fetched