1.—9

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Mr. Maxwell: If Mr. Vaile will not answer any question of detail, what am Ito ask for ? The Chairman: I think it is quite necessary to investigate these details thoroughly. Mr. Vaile : It appears to me that if these figures of Mr. Maxwell's were all taken out it would come to the same thing. You have so many fares averaging 3d., so many averaging 4d., so many averaging 5d., and so on; and if you add all these up the result comes exactly as I brought it out. 167. Hon. Major Atkinson.} Yes ; but it is most important to show how you get 6d., Is., 25., 35., and 4s. passengers to make up the difference ?—I think I am right in my statement: granted that the average fare is Is. ll|-d. now, and that by any means I can get two fares at Is., three fares at Bd., or four at 6d., I get the same general result. Hon. Major Atkinson : You have to show us how to do it. Mr. Whyte : Look at it in this way : To establish your argument it would be better that there should be no increase of the number of fares inside Is., because every fare inside Is. reduces the average fare below that amount. 168. Mr. Maxwell.} Mr. Vaile's average fare for the first stage is about 4-Jd., almost exactly half our average fare for the ten miles. I understand him to say that he would want twice the number of passengers to get the same revenue at these distances?— Yes ; and I am bound to get it. But I never said my average fare for the first stage would be 4-§d. —I have always said I expect to get at least an equal number of both classes, which would give an average of sd.

Monday, 21st June, 1886. Present: The Chairman, Hon. Major Atkinson, Messrs. Gore, Hatch, Macandrew, O'Conor, Walker, Whyte, and Hon. Mr. Eichardson. Mr. Vaile further examined. 169. Mr. Maxwell.] Mr. Vaile, have you looked at that return of passengers and fares which I handed in on Friday ? —I have looked over it, but have not examined it very carefully. 170. Have you formed any idea as to what the average fare would be for the distances over ten miles on your basis?—No; I maintain that I am not concerned in forming an opinion. 171. I would like to call attention to this diagram. [One prepared by Mr. Maxwell.] It shows how, booking from different stations on the Auckland line, the average fares are affected, basing the average fare upon the proportion of three second-class to one first-class ticket ? —lf you assume that I shall get no better proportion of first-class fares to second-class than is now the case, I do not think the return is worth much. Any one with the smallest consideration must see that I have a very good chance of getting a far larger proportion of first-class fares to second-class than is now obtained. 172. I think the return is important, as showing how the average fares are affected when you book from different stations along the line, as compared with the averages when you book from Auckland ?—

Eemarks by Mr. Maxwell, General Manager, New Zealand Eailways, on Mr. Vaile's Proposals. The first proposal on the scheme before the Committee is stated by Mr. Vaile to be " To abolish computing fares and rates by the mile." ]_ The objection to the present system of railway fares and rates seems to be that it is held by Mr. Vaile to be complicated and too extensive. The system prevailing is very similar in character to that pursued in the other Australian Colonies and in Cape Colony and some other places. There does not appear to be any simpler system prevailing anywhere else, so far as I have been able to learn; that in England, having grown out of the numerous Empowering Acts for different lines, is complicated by this fact; but it is, nevertheless, based originally on the mileage-unit. The rates on the English railways are recorded in rate-books kept at each station. These rates on some lines number some millions. The system, which was introduced in Germany with the object of restricting differential rating, and which failed, was certainly not simpler than that in operation here;'neither is that established by Act in the State of Illinois. The system now in operation here originated in the Provinces of Otago and Canterbury, when the railway systems were small. The regulations have been amended and enlarged under the different managements to meet the various demands made by the public and the various exigencies of the service as traffic has developed. They are such as are necessary to insure equality of treatment to the public where a large staff of men are engaged in dealing with a varied traffic in different parts of the colony. Judged by the standard of practice and experience here and elsewhere, they are not unduly extensive or complicated. It is important to note that they have been gradually elaborated to meet conditions and wants which have arisen in the course of business : that they are not the outcome of any untried theory, but the results of careful and deliberate consideration of many officers of experience, who have found the need for them in their daily practice. The proposals before the Committee are of the most vague description; there is nothing before it which can be considered to be an elaborated scheme of rates, fares, and regulations suitable for the daily work of traffic; and, in the absence of such a scheme, we cannot offer a final opinion on its simplicity. But, so far as can be judged from the proposals for stages, it would involve the introduction of the English practice of station rate-books, which would be costly to introduce and much more troublesome and expensive than the present system of general mileage-tables and local rates. There is no complication in having a long classification list; such a one affords facilities for reference. 2 The necessity for classification is obvious: A consignment of one class of merchandise may be carried in one truck, it may not be liable to damage by wet, or to loss from pilferage, or breakage by ordinary handling. Another consignment of like weight may require two trucks to carry it. It may require sheds for receiving and delivering, be fragile, of many times the value of the other