1.—9.

463. That is your return-fare?— Certainly. Members of a family who go to town generally return the same day. 464. What is your return first-class fare ?—Two shillings, as against your two shillings. 465. How long is it since return-tickets have been allowed to Otahuhu ?—For four or five years. 466. You spoke about an excursion to Lichfield —a distance of 143 miles : you surely did not expect a great many people to go on that excursion, 143 miles, to a town where there is only one small hotel ?—I think I stated that the people were allowed to break their journey anywhere, and that they were told that they could get out at Oxford and go to Eotorua, where the recent disturbances would be likely to attract a great many people. 467. But Oxford and Lichfield are both small, places, and people must stop at Lichfield to go to Eotorua ? —No ; at Oxford. 468. They would have to stop the night at Oxford ?—No : if there was a large number they would be taken on the same day. That is done now constantly. 469. I can understand tourists doing it, but I cannot understand any man going along that fine 143 miles to stay at a small hotel and come back, perhaps, next day ?—These tickets, however, extended over a week. 470. I think you said that the fare to Ellerslie Eacecourse was raised to Is. 6d. irrespective of class, and that as many people travelled ?—Yes, on the first day ; the second was a failure owing to rain. 471. Have you had experience with regard to other racecourses in the colony ?—No ; I cannot speak with regard to other places. 472. The fact that this rise of fare did not interfere with the traffic I think proves what I have many times said—that even a pretty considerable reduction at holiday-times makes very little difference : people will almost as soon on a holiday pay a high price as a low one ?—lt entirely depends upon what you call a reduction. 473. Well, a reduction from Is. 6d. to Is. ? —I think the population you are dealing with in New Zealand is far too small. When you come to the long distances I think, perhaps, it would be good policy to reduce the fares to one-fifth on holidays, so as to enable a man to take his wife and children out into the country and to return the same day. 474. Mr. Whyte.} For long distances you think the fares might be reduced to one-fifth ?—Yes, on holidays, if the excursions return the same day, and if we get full trains. 475. Mr. Vaile.] The evidence of this witness and of the last witness practically proves that there is no utility in making a reduction on a holiday. I wanted to elicit that information, because when I first proposed this plan I suggested that for these short journeys on holidays charging double fares. I was induced to abandon that for fear of opposition it would encounter from the public. I do not suggest this now, but wanted to show that my judgment in that respect was right. (To Mr. Hudson) : You say that my system would necessitate keeping station-rate-books ? —Yes. 476. Why ?—Because every time a person wanted to book a parcel or anything of that sort the clerk would have to count up the number of stages. 477. I would like to point out that the impression is sought to be created by the General Manager and by this witness that the system I propose is more complicated and more difficult to carry out than the present one. Now, going south from Auckland there are now twenty-five station-accounts kept: under my system there would only require to be seven station-accounts kept instead of twenty-five?—l do not see that. Do you not propose to have traffic from all stations ? 478. Do you not receive traffic at flag-stations? and why do you not keep accounts for them?— The work would be too great for the small traffic; it is unnecessary. Mr. Vaile : It simply means that, instead of keeping twenty-five accounts on the line going south from Auckland, you would only have to keep seven. Hon. Mr. Richardson: That is to say, you think so. 479. Mr. Vaile.} Yes; and I would be bound to produce a plan on which it could be done. (To witness): You say that the mere fact of passing stations and reckoning by stages would necessitate keeping a station-rate-book for each, You reckon by stages now ? —No ;by miles. Mr. Vaile : If you take goods : Class A, it is the same charge for any distance up to four miles; Classes B, C, and D are the same; Class E, for some reason or other, is a different rate for each mile ;if you take Class Fit is the same rate up to four miles; Class H, wool, undumped or dumped, i 3 the same price for any distance up to ten miles —that is clearly reckoning by the stage. Take timber : that is also the same charge for ten miles or any less distance. lam seeking to show that you now work by stages; and yet you say that the stage-system would involve excessive cost for book-keeping. I can show that you do the same thing as regards passenger-fares. Going from Auckland north, the first two stations, first-class fares are both 6d. —that takes you over four miles; the next stage of five miles is Is.; and then another stage of five miles, Is.; then you come to seven miles, Is.; then eight miles, Is.; and then there comes an extraordinary feature—in the next mile there is a jump of lOd. I have no such sharp break in my transactions. You reckon by stages for passengers and goods. Mr. Whyte : How have these things occurred? Mr. Maxwell: We do not reckon by stages, but have mileage tables, or local rates, for everything. Mr. Vaile : If the charge is the same for four miles as for eight miles it is perfectly manifest that the charge is not made by the mile. Mr. Hudson : It is always the case on railways; it is the terminal charge. Mr. Vaile: lam told that there is a terminal charge on passenger-fares, and yet the short journeys are the cheapest.

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