1.—9;

44

would be a great amount of expense saved. Also with respec to tickets—you simply print them for stages ; the printing and issuing of all other tickets would be saved. On the long distances a great deal would be saved—a ticket, say, to Hamilton would carry the holder for any distance short of Hamilton. Mr. Hannay : There is no reason why, if you have a man at a station, he should not keep accounts as well as his ordinary work ; and it has been found in actual experience that it is better to distribute a large amount of work over a number of men than that it should be concentrated. _ I do not know whether Mr. Vaile lays much stress on the question of tickets, but it is a very inexpensive item. 523. Hon. Mr. Richardson.] What does it amount to in the year on all the New Zealand railways ?—I do not suppose it amounts to more than £500. 524. Mr. Vaile.] There is also the issuing of the tickets, as well as printing. I should like to ask Mr. Hannay, is not a great deal of this work which is done by small station-masters done in America from the train ?- -I am not aware of what is the practice in America. Mr. Vaile : I believe I am right in saying that it is. 525. Mr. Maxwell.] Is it not the case that we have for years been striving to keep down the number of stations all over the country, and have had great difficulty in doing so, and so adding to the expense?— That is so. 526. And you do not think that it would be possible to introduce the plan which has been tried in America, of doing without stations altogether, and having merely covered goods-vans, and leaving them at the sidings ? —No, I do not think so. Hon. Mr. Richardson: It is proposed, under Mr. Vaile's scheme, that the Government should be relieved of their responsibilities as carriers. Do you think that the people of New Zealand would use the railways, or allow their goods to be sent, if they could possibly help it, supposing that the Government were not responsible ? Mr. Vaile : I simply suggested that as a matter of policy : it has nothing to do with the general scheme, and could be adopted or left alone as was thought proper. I believe it would be a good thing to do, as it would enable us to work our railways more cheaply. Hon. Mr. Richardson: I should like to ask Mr. Vaile if he does not know that there is some allowance in every rate for losses which must occur. Mr. Vaile : That is the thing I want to avoid. I propose that the Government shall not insure, but that the users of the railway may do it if they think proper. The difference is this: that when the Government insures and charges for it in the rates, the general'community pay; in the other case the owner of the goods has the option of insuring, and he alone pays. 527. Hon. Mr. Richardson (to Mr. Hannay).] You have heard Mr. Vaile's explanation :do you think the public would be satisfied to trust their goods to anybody who has said they were not responsible ?—No, Ido not think so. It seems to me that we should be going back to the old intention when railways were commenced —that the railway was the highway, and that the owners of the railway should not have anything to do with carriage or risk. As a matter of actual practice, in the large towns we were forced not only to look after the goods, but were also forced to deliver them. It became a matter of necessity not to allow the owners to come and take away their goods as they desired. Although they might take the risk, we were forced to deliver the goods, and every company in Great Britain has been compelled to do the same thing. Mr. Vaile : What Mr. Hannay says is quite correct. It was the original intention that railways should be used as roads, and I think it would be a good thing for the community if they were restored to that position. 528. Mr. Maxwell.] There is one important point. Mr. Vaile's scheme is intended to encourage the industries of the colony, to put people on the land, and so on. Now, the chief industries, as I understand, are grain-growing, cattle-raising, and country produce generally. Of course people in the interior want to export these things. Assuming that Mr. Vaile's rates for goods are payable rates, do you not think that it is thoroughly wrong and a bad principle to impose charges on goods going for export, and to lighten the charges on the same kind of goods going inland: for instance, goods from Buckland for export would be heavily charged, but if they were going inland they would be lightly charged. Take another case :It has been hinted that the Waikato ought to send grain to Helensville. Observe the effect of Mr. Vaile's system. Because there is a town in the way there are a great many stages, so that the rates from the Waikato to Helensville are inordinately increased; and every time he adds a ticket-stage another stage-rate is clapped on to the charges. Take another case : A large number of sheep are sent up from South Canterbury to Belfast; and if these sheep were sent by way of Addington, the shortest route, there would be all sorts of ticket-stage-charges clapped on them, and it might be found cheaper to the sender to run them round by Sheffield and Oxford, but it would be at a very much greater cost to the railway ?—Yes; I think there is no doubt that the department should make the export rate cheaper than the inland rate, as the great products of the country —grain, wool, and meat —are exported; and the effect of Mr. Vaile's proposals is to make the rate to the port higher than it is a similar distance to the country. 529. To give another instance : A great number of sheep are sent from the north of Dunedin to Burnside. All these sheep would have these stage-charges put on them. Then, again, the Bluff has become the port for large shipments of grain : is it not an inconsistency that if we book from Mataura inland we should be charged a quarter of the rate we should be charged from Mataura to the Bluff ?—I think so. 530. And the only reason for this excessive charge is that the City of Invercargill intervenes. Then, again, there is the country traffic between stations lying north and south cf such towns as Dunedin, Timaru, and Oamaru : why are the interchanges of traffic between these places to be handicapped by stage-charges? Do you think those charges in any way tend to develop theinternal resources of the country?—l do not think so.