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158. You could think over it; your evidence upon it would be of great value to iis, as you hayS had so much experience ? —I have been looking over it this morning, but not sufficiently to give evidence upon it. 159. You might be able to suggest some retrenchment in the items, or you might be able to say whether you could suggest any retrenchment upon the whole. [Eeturn 8.-16 put in.]

Monday, 28th June, 1886. Hon. W. D. H. Baillie in attendance, and examined. 160. The Chairman.] You are Chairman of Committees in the Legislative Council ?—Yes ; I was appointed in July, 1879. 161. You have heard the evidence of the Hon. Mr. Eeynolds ?—Yes. 162. Have you any remarks to offer to this Committee upon that evidence ?—I may state that he was in error with respect to the leave granted to Mr. Stowe, the Clerk. The leave was granted by the Government. I may also state that he received his appointment from Government. 163. Has the Speaker no power of appointing the Clerk?—lt is a constitutional matter to which I cannot speak, and one with which, I suppose, the Hon. Mr. Reynolds was not acquainted. With respect to the duties of the various Clerks, I may inform the Committee that there are two of them on duty every evening during the session until 10 o'clock, or later if the Council is sitting ; then, of course, their hours are extended. 164. Will you kindly state what they are ? —lt depends upon the amount of business that has to bo done. Sometimes one waits, sometimes the other. 165. You say they remain alternately ?—Yes. 166. What are their duties when they remain ?—The Second Clerk writes up his Journal and proceedings in Committee. At the early part of the session this work is light; but, during the last three weeks of the session, supposing the Council to sit until 10 or half-past 10 o'clock, it would be nearly 1 o'clock before his Journal could be completed. Likewise the Third Clerk (Mr. Amelius Smith), he is almost always in attendance. He also writes out the Journal of the Council. Of course, during the early part of the session his work is light in that respect, but during the last three or four weeks of the session, when the Bills that come up from the other House are numerous, even supposing the Council rose at 10 or half-past 10 o'clock, he could not finish his work until between 12 and 1 o'clock. I am speaking of facts within my own knowledge. I have known Mr. Stowe, when he kept his own Journal, not to have finished his work before 3 o'clock in the morning. He had to be present at 10 o'clock the same morning, in order to attend the Speaker on business. I may also state, as to the two senior clerks—the Clerk and Clerk-Assistant—their duties in the morning are various. Members are constantly referring to them for information or to furnish papers. They are also constantly called to attend the Speaker for the performance of other duties. The two permanent Clerks have for many years held their present appointments. If they had been for the same length of time in any department of the Civil Service, they would most probably have been drawing larger emoluments. The Hon. Mr. Reynolds stated that within a month after the expiration of the session they would be able to complete their Journals. Now, I know that last year the Journal was copied from the original document, sent to the printer, the proofs compared from day to day as they were received from the Printing Department, and they were not finished until the month of January. I have heard the recommendation made that these Clerks, after the expiration of their legislative duties, should be employed in the public offices of the colony. The question arises, In what capacity could they be employed? I think the Hon. Mr. Reynolds drew attention to the Messenger. Here is the case of the Messenger, who receives £150 : he has to be present every day during the session, and, of course, for six days in the week during the recess. There are messages to be taken backwards and forwards from the Clerk to the printing office daily, and there are other duties, so that to reduce him would be an injustice. In my own opinion, the Clerk and Clerk-Assistants are not over-duly paid, for they have to acquire some considerable knowledge of the Standing Orders and the conduct of the business of the Council. Comparing them with the returns which are here presented from the other colonies, they receive considerably less for the duties they perform. In Canada the Clerk gets £700; in New South Wales, £700 ; in Queensland, £500; in Victoria, £1,000; in South Australia, £600 ; in New Zealand, £500. The Clerk-Assistant in Canada gets £536; in New South Wales, £500; in Queensland, £300 ; in Victoria, £600; in South Australia, £415; in New Zealand, £350. You see that this— New Zealand—is on the lowest scale of any of the various Parliaments or Councils in the leading colonies (Return of Legislative Council Officers' Salaries—Report of Select Committee). This is the number of Bills introduced into the principal colonies: Victoria, 44; New South Wales, 30; and New Zealand, 104 ; together with the expenses of each Council, as follow : Victoria, £5,400 ; New South Wales, £5,590; New Zealand, £3,085. This goes to show that there has been an average of seventy Bills since the abolition of provinces, and that the work of the Council—and, in fact, of Parliament —has increased to the extent, I should say, of one-third by the introduction of local Bills affecting localities previously dealt with by Provincial Councils. From my own knowledge, I can state that many of these Bills used to be previously dealt with by Provincial Legislatures. I may state that the question of the legislative expenditure of the Council has often been brought before our House by the Speakers—Sir John Richardson and Sir William Fitzherbert. I find, on reference to the reports brought up by legislative officers of New South Wales, it is recommended that a certain sum should be set aside—a practice which is followed in various legislative bodies by Act of Parliament —to be dealt with by a sort of Standing Commission appointed by the Government. This is done especially in Canada. There is a Commission appointed, consisting of the Speakers and two or three other gentlemen, to deal with expenditure. You will find the practice in Canada, fully detailed in a book in the library. ffon. Sir B. Stout: There is a book in the library on the subject—BourieUi