8.—12

62

practised. As these Standing Orders have been sanctioned by the House after deliberation and inquiry by a Committee, he thought the House would act unwisely if it were now to reverse its previous decision, and prevent effect being given to the Standing Orders. Mr. Hicks commented upon the antecedents of the Regent's Canal, City, and Docks Railway Company, and remarked that in 1882 a Select Committee refused to sanction the payment by it of interest out of capital. The company had since come in another guise, and, being still unable to raise the necessary capital, sought again the exceptional privilege of paying interest out of capital. Referring to the remark of the honourable member for the Tower Hamlets that the railway would give work in the east end of London, the honourable member affirmed that a tax on foreign sugar would be of more benefit to the Bast end, by enabling our sugar industries to compete with the bounty-supported foreign manufacturers. Mr. Giles supported the Bill, and observed that if the motion were carried it would be a serious blow to the progress of all public companies. The House divided, when there were —For the second reading, 187 ; against, 117 : majority, 70.

Enclosure 8 in No. 3. [Extract from tho Times, Wednesday, Bth July, 1885.] Debate in the House of Loeds, Tuesday, 7th July.—Eegent's Canal, City, and Docks Eailway Bill. On the order for the second reading of this Bill, The Earl of Bavenswokth rose to move that in respect of this Bill the Standing Order No. 128 be suspended. At the outset he desired to state clearly that he did not intend to call in question the value of that Standing Order. He believed, indeed, that it contained a most salutary principle, and that it was a considerable check on reckless railway speculation. He wished, however, in passing to observe that.it was not quite equal in its operation as between the old companies and the new companies that desired to raise funds. He urged that the present scheme was an exceptional one, on account of the vast interests, national, commercial, social, and financial, which it involved. The total share capital under tho borrowing powers was, in round numbers, £10,500,000. As a great national and commercial undertaking the railway would be of vast importance ; and it was also a very large scheme of metropolitan improvement. On these two grounds ho thought it was justifiable to ask their Lordships to take an exceptional view in regard to the Standing Order No. 128. This Bill was introduced in the House of Commons, and on the sth of May, in spite of a strenuous opposition, the second reading was carried by 187 votes against 117. It then received a searching investigation at the hands of a Select Committee, which reported unanimously in favour of it. He now wished to describe the unsatisfactory position arising from a discrepancy in the procedure of the two Houses in the matter of the prohibition of the payment of interest out of capital. At the instance of tho Chairman of Committees, the other House amended its Standing Order relating to this question by adding these words : " And except such interest, if any, as the Committee on the Bill may, according to the circumstances of the case, think fit to allow." So important was this alteration that the noble Lord at the table felt it his duty to call the attention of that House to it. A debate ensued, and the noble Earl ended by moving to alter the Standing Order of their Lordships' House. That motion was negatived ; and an amendment moved by a noble Lord opposite, to the effect that it was inexpedient to modify the Standing Order, was withdrawn. The result was that the question remained in statu quo, and he thought that was rather an inconvenient position for so important a question to remain in. He would now state why he thought this great national scheme was entitled to be dealt with exceptionally. The proposed line would follow almost exactly the present course of the Eegent's Canal, with one or two divergencies at this end, near London. It would be, in fact, a continuation of the Great Western Eailway as far as the Victoria and Albert Docks, and the Midland, the Great Northern, and the London and North-Western Bailways would also obtain direct access to those docks. Those docks contained an area of 192 acres, ami had forty miles of railway-siding and tramway-lines, while they afforded accommodation in 1881 for 6,367 ships, having a total tonnage of 2,569,000 tons. This accommodation was increasing and improving every day. One very important advantage that would result from this scheme would be that the Welsh smokeless steam coal would be brought to the steamers without transhipment, whereby great loss would be prevented, and the efficiency of the Eoyal Navy would be largely increased. The scheme would also involve a cheap railway service for the working-men, who would be conveyed at the rate of one farthing per mile to and from the north of London, where there were many admirable sites for the erection of workmen's dwellings. The line, in consequence of its proximity to the canal, could be constructed at a cheap rate, and it would interfere in a very slight degree with house property, streets, or roadways, or with the mysterious underground system of gas-mains, sewers, and water-pipes. The strongest argument in favour of the Bill was that there was practically no opposition to it, petitions having been signed in its favour by representatives of a population of 1,092,148. He had taken up this as a national question ; and he appealed to their Lordships not to allow artificial barriers to stand in the way of carrying on such a scheme as this. It might be asked, why could not the promoters find the money ? The answer simply was, because they could not. He had no hesitation in asking the House to assent to his motion. Lord Beaboubne said what their Lordships wore asked to do was to depart from a Standing Order framed long since and supported by a large number of Parliamentary authorities, and which had for its object that commercial enterprises of this kind should be conducted on sound financial principles. He held that tho proper course was that the House should be asked to assent to only what was wanted ; but they were invited to make an exception. Ho entirely objected, and hoped that no temptation would be held out to investors. He was not going to say a word against the,