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I.—sa

185. Do you know Mr. Alexander McDonald?—Yes. 186. Did you ever negotiate with him for the sale of other parts of the block besides the 4,000 acres to the Government ?—I had some indefinite conversation with him or some arrangement with him about selling the land, but the only final arrangement was with the Government. I made my bargain with the Government, and intend to keep to that, and that is the end of the whole thing. If you have any fault to find about that you must settle it with Mr. Ballance. 187. Do you say that you never offered any other portion of the land to the Government except the 4,000 acres?—I only consented to sell 4,000 acres to the Government. 188. When the subdivision took place did you not agree to sell a larger portion of the land ?— I did not. 189. Do you remember having had any conversation with Mr. Ballance about the payment of the money for the land?—Yes ; I had a conversation with Mr. Ballance. It was arranged that I should get £1 10s. an acre, and when the price was fixed I handed over the land. 190. Was the payment put off for any time after the arrangement for the purchase was made ? —There was some delay while we were arguing what the price should be, but when the price was fixed then the.money was paid. 191. Did you not convey 800 acres of land to Messrs Sievwright and Stout?—Those gentlemen had a claim against me and against the people of my other tribe, and it was given them to settle that claim. 192. Was not the month of March last fixed for the payment of the money for the 4,000 acres ? —I do not remember that March was fixed for the payment. 193. Was there a written agreement between you and the Government for the sale of the land? —After the terms were settled there was an agreement between Mr. Lewis and myself. 194. Settling the terms of purchase ?—It was fixing the price at £1 10s.—the final settlement. 195. Then, you transacted business with Mr. Lewis?—Yes; Mr. Lewis will be able to give evidence on that. My copy of the paper is at Wanganui. 196. Were you not asked to wait until March for the payment of the money, because if it was paid before the company would get the land ?—I do not remember. 197. Mr. Ballance.} You have said there was some delay, was not that in order that Mr. Marchant should send the valuation of the land in?—There was a delay of that sort. ' 198. And as soon as the valuation was sent in by Mr. Marchant instruction was given to Mr. Lewis to complete the purchase ?—Yes. 199. Do you think any unnecessary delay took place in the Native Office after the terms had been arranged and the valuation made ?—There was no unnecessary delay. The only delay was when you stated that it would be necessary to send Mr. Marchant out to inspect the land. Mr. Marchant made a valuation of the land, and the money was paid immediately afterwards. 200. You have referred to 800 acres of land conveyed to Messrs. Sievwright and Stout. Was not that conveyed to Mr. Sievwright alone?—I gave the land to Mr. Sievwright. It was he who came to Wanganui to interview me. 201. The debt due was to Mr. Sievwright. and not to any one else?—I only recognise Mr. Sievwright in the affair. 202. Mr. Boss.] Was the debt due to the firm of Messrs. Sievwright and Stout for law expenses ?—£800 was given for legal expenses incurred by me in dealing with my Wanganui land. 203. To the firm ?—Those were the lawyers I applied to. 204. But the debt was only due to Mr. Sievwright ?—Sir Bobert Stout was behind the scenes. Mr. Sievwright was the only person who came to me. There was only one occasion on which Sir Bobert Stout came to Wanganui to see me ; he only paid me one visit, but after he went away Mr. Sievwright came frequently. 205. You recognise you owe the money to Mr. Sievwright, and no one else?—I received no money from those lawyers, but I owed them money for law expenses. 206. Mr. Macarthur.] This visit of Mr. Sievwright was in conjunction with Sir Bobert Stout, who was his partner ?—I wished to consult those lawyers with a view to ascertaining whether I could get what I wished with regard to my land. Messrs. Stout and Sievwright both came to see me. Then Sir Bobert Stout returned and Mr. Sievwright came to see me frequently on the same business. 207. Were you dealing with them as a firm or separately ?—I was dealing with them both; but when one went away then I negotiated with the other. 208. Mr. Ballance.] Did not Mr. Sievwright advance money at various times ?—No ; he gave me no money. His claim was for legal expenses. 209. Mr. Travers.} I ask whether the whole of the land was not under Proclamation, thus preventing you from alienating to persons other than the Crown at the time this allocation took place to Mr. Sievwright ?—I never received a copy in Maori of that Proclamation. Better inquire of the Government if there was such a Proclamation in force. 210. Are you not the sole owner of the Tuwhakatupua No. 2 Block?—There was some arrangement between myself and the Ngatiraukawa about that land. I have a thousand acres there ; the rest belongs to the Ngatiraukawa. 211. Did you offer it for sale to the Government ?—No ; Tuwhakatupua No. 1 was offered for sale to the Government. 212. Did you not offer 1,200 acres of No. 2 ?—I made no offer to sell to the Government It was in Tuwhakatupua No. 1 that was bought. Some of the Muaupoko had their names affixed as owners of that block, and a portion of it was sold. Some of them may have withheld their shares. I do not know. Mr. T. W. Lewis, Under Secretary of Native Affairs, examined. 213. Mr. Travers.] You are Under-Secretary of the Native Department?—Yes.