15

I.—4a.

227. Do you mean to say that the extraction of metals is taught there ?—I say it is to a certain extent. 228. To what good is that ? —I say that the schools of mines have done a great deal of good in this way ; they have, for instance, enabled mining communities to know zinc-blend, copper-ore, cinnabar, and other ores when they see them; if they see an ore now, they are in a position to say, " This contains tin," or " This contains copper," or " This contains iron," as the case may be ; you can find many of the students to tell you a great deal about minerals as well as gold. 229. That is mineralogy : but I want to know whether the treatment of copper-ore for the extraction of the copper, which is metallurgy, is taught there?— No. 230. Or can it be ?—No. There are no metallurgical works here. 231. Do you not think a school of mines, to be of any use, should teach the comparative methods of extracting metals ?—These schools were established for the purpose of giving mining communities a knowledge of the ores which they find on their goldfields, which knowledge they could not otherwise have had. 232. Do you not think that it was the school of mines that has revolutionized the whole history of England ?—There is no doubt that in great centres, such as London, and in other places, you can get up large schools of mines, where everything is taught. But here it would be an utter impossibility to get up such schools. We have neither the people to attend them nor the funds to carry them on. 233. There are no very large schools of mines in London, and there are not a great many who attend the schools there; but do you not think that the work done by the school of mines in London has revolutionized the iron industry of England ?—I do. 234. No question about it : why, then, should we not establish a central school attached to a teaching body, such as a university, which might revolutionize the methods of treating ores here the same as has been done in England ?—My answer to that is, that it is a question of policy. 235. Mr. Cadman.] Can you tell me under whose control is Professor Ulrich? —Under the Otago University, I believe. Mr. Larnach : The Minister of Mines has the right to ask him, during the six months that the University is not in session, to do work for the Mines Department. I have before stated that Professor Ulrich is not able to travel in consequence of some injury he has sustained. For that reason, the Mines Department, I believe, has never got much of his services. Mr. Cadman : You say that, to a certain extent, Professor Ulrich is under the Mines Department. Mr. Larnach : We can send to him things to be tested or for analysis when they are required. We can send him specimens of mineralogy to be named. 236. The Chairman.] How long, Mr. Gordon, have you been in connection with the Mining Department ?—Five years. 237. During that five years have services been rendered by Professor Ulrich to the department? —Yes; on several occasions. He has reported on several things during that time. 238. What do you mean by several things ?—He has reported on the auriferous nature of the country in the vicinity of Eoss on the ground that would be commanded by the Mikonui Waterrace, if it were ever constructed. I think he has reported on the Mount Benger District, and Green's Eeef, in Otago ; also on Mount Ida and Longwood Districts. 239. Then you had five reports for £500 a year during the last five years ?—I cannot exactly tell the number of reports we have had. 240. Then the amount paid by the colony to Professor Ulrich would be £2,500 ? Mr. Larnach : lam not sure; but I think this £500 a year was only paid within the last two years. 241. Mr. Allen.} Was it paid last year ?—Yes. Mr. Larnach : It has been paid. Mr. Allen: It was put on the estimates. Mr. Larnach : The money has been paid. 242. The Chairman.] Then what you term "schools of mines" have taught assaying to miners throughout the colony?— Yes. Mr. Allen : Thoroughly, I understood Mr. Gordon to say. Mr. Larnach : Sufficiently for their purpose. 243. The Chairman.] Do you think the teaching the miners have received in that direction is in itself sufficient to warrant the establishment of the schools ? —Yes ; I think it has been a great boon to the miners and a benefit to the colony that the schools of mines have been established. We do not see the results as yet, but there is no doubt they will be the means of producing good fruit. 244. Mr. Allen.] How long do you think it would take to teach assaying thoroughly of goldore alone, working six hours a day ? —ln the American schools they have there one session devoted to this. 245. There is one question I would ask you about Professor Ulrich. Do you think that the gain to the colony of his teaching results only from his visits to particular parts of it : is there no gain to the colony from the students he has turned out ? —There is no doubt of it. We have one of his students at the Thames, who is a credit to the colony. 246. Do you think that the students turned out from the school of mines in Dunedin are sufficiently trained in the metallurgical extraction from ores ? —I question it very much ; I do not think they have had sufficient opportunity. 247. Are they well tried in mining?— Yes, I understand so ; that is, the principles of mining, but not in the practical working of mines.