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1221. The concrete was rammed?— Yes. 1222. Do you remember whether sand was added with it ? —Yes, it was. 1223. You have had a good deal of experience with concrete, I suppose ?—Yes. 1224. Would you call that concrete good or bad concrete? —I think it was very good concrete. 1225. Was Mr. Brindley present when most of the concrete was put in?—l did not put in any without him being present. He was always standing there at the trench. He was always between the trench and the mixing-board. 1226. Mr. Skinner.] What size boulders were put in ?—I suppose they would be from Bin. to lft. packing. 1227. Were they broken up or put in as boulders ?—Broken up. There may have been a few that were not, but no round ones were put in. 1228. Were the boulders clean when they were put in ? —They were all cleaned before they were allowed to be put in. 1229. How were they cleaned?— With water. 1230. Mr. Mountfort.] Was the concrete put in with boards on each side of it ?—ln some places it was. 1231. But it was generally put in the earth?— Yes, in the earth. Where it would be loose or difficult ground boards would be always put on each side of it. 1232. You have stated that you used sand with the stones ?—Yes, with the screenings. 1233. Do you recollect the proportions that you used to put in—how much sand and how much stone ? We know that it was lof cement ? —I think it was 5 ,to 1 altogether, but I would not be certain. Of course I was not there when the boxes were made. I know that the boxes were made to Mr. Brindley's orders, and he was always there when the concrete was measured. 1234. Mr. Blair.] You have said that the boulders, before they were put in, were cleaned : were they scraped or washed?— They were washed with water when they were very dirty. 1235. How did you apply the water —with a hose ?—Yes. 1236. Where did. you get your pressure from ? —I do not know, but I know that we used a hose for it. Mr. Gore : There was a pressure of 25ft. We could throw it over the engine-shed. Benjamin Butcher sworn and examined. 1237. Mr. Gore.] You were foreman of the bricklayers at Seacliff, were you not ?—-Yes. 1238. Did you see the concrete that was put in?—l saw some of it. 1239. Did you see the materials measured? —Yes. 1240. The materials were mixed on a board and then put in the trenches ? —Yes. 1241. Were you at work at the concrete for me at any time?— Yes; I superintended the putting of a portion of it in. 1242. From your knowledge of concrete should you consider it good or bad concrete?—lt was mixed up according to specification. 1243. That was not what I asked you. From your knowledge of concrete do you consider it good or bad concrete?—l consider it was good concrete. 1244. Do you remember this part of the building [indicating on plan] before it was built ? By the way, have you seen a similar plan to this before ?—Yes. 1245. This is the extreme north wing and the ambulatory. Do you remember this concrete at the back wall ? —Yes ; that is the back wall, west. 1246. You remember this back wall of the north wing, Block 2. Do you remember, before you commenced any brickwork on that back wall, whether or not there were any cracks in it ?— Yes, there was. 1247. Before any bricks were put on it ?—Yes, before any bricks were put on it at all. 1248. Did Mr. Brindley call attention to it, or did you notice it yourself ? —I noticed it, but I think Mr. Brindley called attention to it as well. lam almost certain that it was so. 1249. At all events, you either noticed it or Mr. Brindley called your attention to it?— Yes. I rather fancy that I called Mr. Brindley's attention to it, but I will not be certain. 1250. Was there more than one crack that you remember ?—I only remember the one. 1251. Can you remember whereabouts it was ?—lt was somewhere here [indicating on plan], at the back of the gable. 1252. The Chairman.] In that recess ?—Well, it is some time ago, and I cannot say exactly. 1253. Mr. Gore.] But you remember distinctly that there was a crack?— Yes. 1254. And that was before any brickwork was put on that wall ? —Oh, yes ! 1255. The Chairman.] I wish to ask you whether that concrete wall was filled in before any brickwork was put on ?—No. 1256. The crack appeared before that was filled in ? —Yes. 1257. Was the ground sloped back?—No; it was a sort of roof. 1258. The ground at the back was about 12ft. higher than this foundation ?—That is a sort of bottom—that is right down to the bottom. Mr. Gore : I may explain that the ground was a little lower than it is at the present time— there has been a little filling-in ; but so far as the solid ground is concerned it rested against the wall. 1259. Mr. Blair.] Did the crack appear where the embankment came to the wall?—I cannot say as to that. 1260. Was the embankment made against the wall or rammed against it flat ?—I cannot say as to that. All I know is that it got raggedy a little way down. This crack appears on the top and down the side. 1261. Mr. Gore.] You have been working for me for some time? —Yes.