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260. Did Stockman make any remark on that occasion ?—He did. 261. What did he say?—He pulled a deed out of his pocket, and, turning round, said, " Look here, old man, they have not got a leg to stand on. As to the deeds they are producing, they have not got a single owner's name to them. This is the only deed that we can go on." 262. Do you know what that deed was?—lt was a deed for the whole of the north bank. 263. Signed by any Natives? —It was signed by the owners of the two pieces that had gone through the Court. 264. You do not mean the Committee to understand that the block had gone through the Court when the deed was signed in 1882 ?—No ; not that it had gone through the Court. 265. Mr. Hutchison.'] What do you mean by "owners"? —They were owners in the blocks that went through afterwards at Waitara. 266. The Chairman.'] They were owners of the blocks afterwards ?—Yes; they were owners of the blocks that went through the Court afterwards at Waitara. 267. Mr. Gray.] The deed was between the Natives and who else ?—Stockman and others. 268. Were the others named?—l think not. 269. You saw the deed: did you see the signatures of the Natives to that agreement?—l saw that there were signatures to it. I hardly remember the names. 270. Do you know whether any signatures were added to it ?—I do not. 271. Do you know anything about the agreement of June, 1887, between Owen and Stockman ? —Yes. 272. Do you know anything of the circumstances under which it was signed ?—Yes, I do. I was present in the room when Mr. Stockman asked Mr. Jones to write out an agreement between himself and Mr. Owen. 273. Did you ever read the agreement afterwards?—l did. 274. Did the agreement, as written out, state the terms of their arrangement ?—Yes. 275. The Chairman.] You stated that you were negotiating a block for yourself and Mr. Hugh Owen ?—Yes. 276. Were you a licensed interpreter ?—No. 277. You understand the Native language?—Not well. 278. How did you negotiate ?—We employed interpreters. 279. Mr. Gray.] Who were your interpreters?—Henry Phillips and Charles Wallace. 280. The Chairman.] You have made a statement about Mr. Standish, and about the Chief Judge stating he had a telegram from James Eussell ? —Yes. 281. Are yoii sure the Chief Judge made use of the expression, " Here is a telegram from James Eussell, of Auckland, that settles all " ?—Yes. 282. I suppose Mr. Standish would recollect that ?—Mr. Standish cannot forget it. 283. Mr. Hutchison.] Then, with regard to these agreements you say were entered into between Stockman, Owen, and others with the Natives, do you look upon those agreements as legal documents that would be legalised at some future time ? —I should look upon them as legal documents at the time of the negotiations, as all such transactions with the Natives are conducted in the same way. 284. Major Jackson.] When Mr. Standish was asked by Mr. Owen about the confidential telegram, was Mr. Joshua Jones present ?—No. 285. He was not ?—Not at that time when we came out. 286. Was he ever present when Mr. Standish and Owen were talking about that confidential telegram?—Yes, I believe he was present on every occasion in the office. 287. Was he present when you were there ?—No. 288. When Mr. Standish and Owen were talking about the contents of that telegram, was Mr. Joshua Jones present ? —He was present in the office, and I was present. 289. When Mr. Standish and Owen were talking about the contents of that telegram, was Mr. Joshua Jones present ?—No, not in the first instance. 290. You stated that Mr. Owen asked Mr. Standish what was in that telegram?—He did. 291. And Mr. Standish said, " I cannot tell you, for it is confidential; but it is against your interests " ?—Yes; he said " fatal to your interests." 292. Now, was Mr. Joshua Jones present then?—No, not on that occasion. He was not present on that occasion. 293. On what occasion was Mr. Jones present ? —I believe, when I also was in Mr. Standish's office Mr. Jones, Mr. Owen, and Mr. Standish were there. 294. What part did Mr. Jones take in the conversation ?—That I really could not tell you. 295. Did he make any suggestions at all, or did he intimate to Mr. Standish that he ought to take a certain course with regard to that telegram ? —I believe he said he should disclose the contents of it. 296. On what grounds ?—Because his client was his first interest. 297. When was that said ?—I think it must have been the day after the granting of the certificate—about the 16th or 17th June. 298. You are sure it was not said on the same day that the telegram was given by the Chief Judge to Mr. Standish ? —lt might have been, because we were up there a number of times afterwards. 299. The Chairman.] Was Mr. Owen present when Mr. Standish made the statement that the telegram was " fatal to your interests " ?—Yes; he was coming from the hotel. 300. Mr. Gray.] Jones was not present at the time you were coming from the hotel?—He was not; but he was present when the telegram was discussed. 301. Did you ever say anything to Stockman about the signature of the woman named Mare Kura put upon the agreement ?—Yes, I have spoken to him.