I.—3a

14

347. Was he accompanied by anybody?—By Nevill Walker, George Stockman, two sons of Stockman, and Te Huia. 348. Do you know what took place when they reached Mokau?—They went down there for the purpose of obtaining signatures from some of the Natives there. 349. Did you hear Major Brown request any Natives to sign?—Well, the following morning I was ashore. I wanted to get up the river with the boat to the mines. There was a half-caste named Henry Phillips, whose wife they wanted to sign. He asked me what I was doing. 1 said, if she was my wife I would not let her sign if I did not think it proper. He seemed to have an objection to allow his wife to sign. 350. Was she present ? —Yes. 351. Did she sign? —I do not think she signed that day. 352. Did you see her sign at any time? —No. 353. Did you see any Natives sigh? —Yes; I saw Natives and Native children sign a paper that was lying on the table at Te Wetere's house. 354. Do you know what the papers related to?—I was told that they related to more land that they were going to try to get. 355. Who was trying to get?—Nevil Walker. 356. Was the deed read over when the Natives signed ?—No; I did not hear it read over. That seemed to be the objection of Harry Phillips—that the deed was not read over—that they did not know what they were signing. 357. Did you see any licensed interpreter present ?—Yes; there was a young man, a half-caste, named Charles Brown. 358. Did you hear him read the deed in Maori to the Natives ? —No, not that morning. 359. At any time when the Natives signed ?—No, not when they were signing; it was not read over at all. 360. Mr. Hutchison.] Did you give attention to what was going on at the table, or were you just casually present ?—I was on shore expecting to take the steamer to Mokau. I had nothing to •occupy my attention but looking at what they were doing. 361. Did you give it your attention?—Yes. 362. Do you know Maori?—No. 363. Were they conversing in Maori?—No. Phillips and George Stockman spoke to me in English. 364. Were there any negotiations going on with the Maoris? —No, none that I heard. I knew they were hurrying the Natives up to sign the paper through my being in a hurry to go up to the mines. Major Brown and Walker told me so. 365. Which Natives did you see actually sign the deed ? —I know pretty well all the Natives; I do not know their names. 366. There were men and some women ?—There were some females and males. 367. You say you saw one signature signed ?—No. 368. How many signatures did you see signed ?—I do not know the number. 369. How many did you actually see write their names or make a mark on the deed?—l did not count. 370. Did you see many ? —No ; there was not a great many. 371. Did you see half a dozen?—l dare say there would be half a dozen; perhaps more. 372. Were they spoken to in Maori by Brown or other persons ?—Not at that time; not while they were signing. 373. Who witnessed their signatures?—l think a man named Shaw was there. He was engaged to witness the signatures. 374. Did you see any one attesting the signatures?—l did not see Shaw write his name. 375. Did you not see any persons witnessing the signatures—subscribing their names against the others ? —No ; I only saw Shaw, who, I understand, was employed to witness the signatures. 376. The Chairman.] You say he did not speak in Maori ?—The paper was not taken up and read over in English or Maori. 377. Do you understand Maori?—No, I do not. 378. The interpreter would be compelled to talk to them in Maori when asking them to sign the deed ? —Yes, he would. I should think so. 379. I understand you to say that you did not hear any Maori spoken?—l did not hear anything explained in Maori to the Natives. Of course there might be some conversation going on the night previous. 380. It might have been explained by the interpreter before they came to sign it ?—lt might have been. 381. Major Jackson.] What time did you leave Waitara ? —I left the day previous, and got in there about six o'clock in the evening. 382. Do you know whether there was a meeting that night or not ?—I could not say; I was not ashore. 383. You do not know —there might or might not have been a meeting ?—There might have been. 384. When did you come ashore ?—I went ashore about eight o'clock. 385. Was the paper on the table ?—There was a table brought out in Te Wetere's house, and the paper was put on the table. I was there before the paper was brought out. 386. The paper was laid on the table before you came there ?—No ; it was brought out when I was there.