E.—ll

4

67. When they leave the institution what amount of language have they ?—They are quite capable of going out into the world and carrying on an ordinary conversation, asking simple questions, and being able to talk on the ordinary topics of the day. 68* Asking for what they want, and understanding what is said to them ?—Yes. 69. What proportion of boys and of girls have you?—Twenty-one girls and twenty-two boys. 10. What situations do the girls get? WThat are they trained for?—They are not trained for anything in particular. 71. For work in the household ?—For household work. One girl is apprenticed to a dressmaker now ; and another is at home with her father, who is in the shoemaking trade. 72. You have told us about the first year; but I want to know, with regard to the other years also, what is your course of instruction. I want to know what standard you expect them to get up to year by year, and what change of treatment you make — in fact, what progress they make from year to year. You have told us the results, but I want to know the gradual steps that lead up to those results. You have told us as to the first twelve months; will you go on with the other years ?—Then in the second year a child would get into the way of reading short sentences from a book, and being able to give us short accounts and descriptions of pictures and of things that are going on around him.* 73. There are no signs used ?—There are no artificial signs used. Of course there must be a certain amount of natural signs used in teaching the deaf, but we do away with those signs as quickly as we possibly can. 74. Do the children among themselves use signs ?—They use natural signs to a certain extent, but we endeavour to stop that as quickly as we can. As they advance and begin to learn the advantage they get by communicating by speech they will leave that sort of thing off to a very great extent. Of course they will never leave off signing entirely. It is a very difficult matter to draw the line as to what is signing and what is not signing. 75. I understand you to say that they use certain natural signs ?—Just natural signs. There are no artificial signs used. 76. What happens in the third year ?—In the third year they will be able to read and to understand very simple stories, as simple as it is possible to get, and very short ones. 77. And in the fourth year ?—They will then be able to get on to describe ordinary objects which they see about them, and, of course, to advance again in their reading. I should have said that in the second and third years of course they have started with their arithmetic. A child in the second year would be able to count up to a hundred perhaps, but not with mere figures, and to do a few simple addition sums. In the third year he would go on with addition, and also do subtraction and simple multiplication. In the fourth year we begin to teach them the use of money. Then, in the fifth year we teach them geography, and parts of the newspaper. 78. Do you teach them Euclid ?—In three cases. Geography and history are taught. 79. You do not go beyond the ordinary rules of arithmetic ?—No. Of course the Government in general simply give the children a sound education,, because, as a rule, they are the children of poor parents, and they will have to earn their living in the future in some ordinary line of life, and their education is carried on with a view to that. 80. Are the parents satisfied with the results of the schooling?—Yes, the parents are well satisfied. 81. Have you any testimony to that effect?—I have one of the reports. In his report of the 10th June, 1885, the Director says, "The North Island pupils were last Christmas accompanied to their homes by the Director and his wife, who were thus enabled to confer with the parents on matters affecting their children's education and general welfare. It was pleasing to find how much spirit of industry and helpfulness in the home-circle was exhibited by many of them, and how much use all of them made of their power of speech as far as their knowledge of language would permit." There are some remarks in some of these reports which may be interesting, referring to those children who have been in the institution and have left it. 82. Can you give us any extracts?—Yes ; I can give you extracts from these reports. 83. Year by year?—Yes, since 1883. The first case was that of a girl who left us in 1883. 84. Mr. St. John Ackers.] This girl had been only two years in the institution, because you have told us that it was founded in 1880 ?—Yes; this was the case of a girl who had not lost the power of speech. 85. The Chairman.] Will you read the extract relating to her ?—"' The young lady referred to came to us not as a dumb person, but as a totally deaf person, defective in utterance. After two years' training she returned to her friends greatly changed, and in a most cheerful and happy frame of mind. She felt conscious that, through having accomplished the object for which she entered— viz., that of learning the valuable art of lip-reading and of improving her articulation, &c.—she did not only return home better fitted for the domestic circle, but that she could now also enter into, and in a great measure participate in, the cheerful society of others." 86. Have you any independent reports of the Government Inspector ? What you have been quoting are remarks of your own Director, if I rightly understand ?—Yes. 87. We should like the report of some one who visits the institution, not merely the head of the institution ?—Here is a report by Mr. J. H. Pope to the Secretary for Education in 1883. He says : " I visited the Sumner Institution for Deaf-mutes on the 1st of the present month. At the time of my visit no work was going on ; it was Saturday afternoon, and nearly all the children were at play. I had therefore an opportunity of seeing them when not engaged with the ordinary school routine, of talking with them when they were free from the restraint of being in school,

* The backbone of the course of studies consists in- a series of lessons, which I compiled for my pupils while in England, between the years 1859 and 1879. These I have slightly altered so as to make them applicable to the somewhat different requirements of New Zealand children.—G.V.A.