E.—ll.

the minister of each denomination to attend during certain hours in the week and to give instruction to those of his own persuasion?— Yes. 219. §o far as you know, has any representation been made to the Government on behalf of your institution that, as the Chairman said, inasmuch as this is not a day-school, where the pupils can get religious instruction at home, but is a boarding-school, where they are the whole year with the exception of their holidays at Christmas, there should be some relaxation of the rule, and that the ministers of religion should be allowed to come to those of their own persuasion ? —I do not believe that any representation of that kind has been made. 220. Now, you spoke of natural signs. Would you kindly describe what you mean by natural signs? Just give us one ordinary natural sign.—(The witness beckoned with the forefinger.) 221. Have you seen a good many signs in schools conducted upon the sign-manual system which are called by the teachers of that system natural signs, which you yourself could not understand ?—I have seen a great many signs used ; I should call them natural signs, but Ido not know what the teachers call them themselves. 222. Would you call that (putting down the thumb) a natural sign? —1 do not know that. I do not call that a natural sign: that is an artificial sign. 223. Then, in your opinion, the phrase "natural sign" is made to mean different things by different speakers?—lt is so. 224. But in the profession all signs which are derived from some natural action are called natural signs ?—That may be ; but the teachers with us are strictly prohibited to make use of these imitations of natural actions. 225. However little of the original natural action it is thought necessary to preserve ? —Yes. 226. You use these natural signs, which are practically gestures, how long in teaching ? — For as short a space of time as we possibly can ; we do away with them as quickly as we possibly can. 227. For instance, when a child knows the word "come," would you continue to use the beckoning sign?— No. 228. Then, in fact, as coon as you are able to give spoken language you do away with the sign ? —Yes. But you will bear this in mind : that the teacher of the deaf, who is teaching on the pure oral system, is bound to sign—he cannot help himself ; I mean a little, not a great dealjust as a lecturer or preacher does. 229. It is a certain amount of action accompanying the words, in fact ? —Yes. 230. But you do not make any signs which ordinary hearing people, would not understand ? —No. 231. Mr. Van Oven.] Nor do you make those signs intentionally?—No; involuntarily. 232. Mr. St. John Ackers.'] Is drawing taught in your school? —It has been taught since February, 1888. 233. Are accurate tables kept in your school with regard to the causes of deafness, consanguinity of the parents, deaf relations, and so forth ?—I have not seen any. 234. Has that been one of the suggestions made to the Government from your school?—I believe that that suggestion has been made by Mr. Laishley. 235. You spoke of the schools in the Australian Colonies you visited being of a charitable character: do you know whether the ordinary education of those colonies is gratuitous for the hearing children? —I do not know. 236. The Chairman.] Is there anything else you would wish to tell us ? —No. 237. You have not visited the institutions on the Continent, have you?--I have not; I am going over next week. Approximate, Cost of Paper.— Preparation, nil; printing (2,700 copies), £8 15s.

Authority : George Didsbuky, Government Printer, Wellington. —lB9o.

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