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181. The Chairman.] Is the American system of grading wheat adopted under Governmental control ? —I do not know; I think it must be. You- go into the Exchange and buy a certain class of wheat. You do not buy any particular line of wheat. You get paper scrip for it. You get a certain graded class. It simplifies trade immensely. 182. You do not know whether it is done by associations or by the Government?—l do not know. 183. Mr. Mackenzie.] You are not quite satisfied as to whether grading should take place in this colony or in London ? —I should say that it should be tried in this colony. 184. Would the settlers be prepared to pay the cost of grading?— Yes. 185. Is it not possible that butter might keep thoroughly good for a month, and the same butter under the same circumstances might not keep three mouths after its arrival in London ? — That is so. 186. So that grading here would be hardly likely to indicate what the butter would be when it landed in England? —I think it would be right enough when it landed in England. The only question would be how long it would keep after landing. 187. Have you tried any experiments in Taranaki as to keeping the butter ?—Yes. 188. How long have you kept it ? —I have seen it kept in kegs twelve months. It was fairly good—as good as butter could be. It would not be as good as when fresh made. It gets staler in flavour. 189. If it will keep in Taranaki for twelve months fairly good it is fair to assume that if you had cool-vans from Taranaki to the port of shipment, a cool receptacle at the port here, then taken Home in a cool-chamber with a regular temperature, that the butter would be landed in London in a good marketable state ?—Yes.. 190. You referred to the classifying of butter here which when sent over to the other colonies was rejected as not being up to the standard of classification ?—Yes. It is not classified here at the present time. 191. If classified here as first class, that would bind the buyers in Victoria?— Yes, unquestionably it would. 192. Apart from any circumstances arising during the-voyage?—Yes, provided it was sold free on board. 193. The Chairman.; Do you not consider that grading by a central dairy-produce association would have the same effect as governmental inspection ? —Yes ; once it became established I do not see why it should not be as good as governmental inspection. There are no English butter merchants here at present; they are all at Home. The object is to get the name or brand established in London. It is a very simple thing to get it established if there is sufficient quantity. 194. If the small voluntary associations agreed to the grading of butter, would it'not have the same effect as governmental inspection ?—Yes, practically, I believe it would. With respect to the tuition of farmers, I may say that a great many farmers in New Zealand have not been brought up as farmers —a large percentage of them. There is a great lot of butter made of very inferior quality throughout New Zealand. I know it to my cost in our own district. Others can bear me out in saying that a very large percentage of butter comes in in a condition that it should not. If you take any one man and go to the trouble of explaining what should be done you will see that man gradually working up from very dirty cream-looking stuff until it becomes good butter. That expense or loss falls entirely on the merchant or farmer, and is not quick enough by any means. My own idea would lie to have a man who would go round to the farmers, and stay in the Wairarapa, Taranaki, and other places so many months,- and make teaching visits to the farmers' houses. The farmers would be glad to see him. He can teach, them something; if he cannot there would be no harm done. This plan has been adopted-in. Denmark and Ireland. Dairy inspectors have been appointed by the New Zealand Government from time to time. In our district they look at the factories, and go into the stores and see certain butter. They never go into the interior or pay visits to the butter-making districts. They visit a few persons in the towns who make good butter, and where inspection is not so necessary. I would like to point out the advantages to be derived from tuition both in the making of cheese and butter. I do not speak so much of cheese, because nearly all the cheese is made by the factories. I consider that inspection of factories, although useful, is almost unnecessary, for the simple reason that at the factory the man must be the man who can do the best work. If he does not he goes to the wall. It is not so with the small.farmer. He has no money to expend, and does not know 7 what to do. The question of tuition and inspection does not apply to the large butter-factories as it w r ould do to the small farmers. With regard to packages, we have been using large and small kegs. The large kegs have been utterly discarded now, and will not be used any more, (hie hundred pound kegs are practically worthless for the London market. The general instruction from our London and provincial buyers is to the effect that 601b. totara kegs are about the best that can be sent. So far as Pond's boxes and other boxes are concerned, I am of opinion at the present time that our butter is not suitable for them. The merchants in London say that the very finest butters can be put in Pond's boxes with advantage ; but for the other kiuds —the medium, or what we should call good in the colony, which has to go to the provinces—kegs are preferred. 195. Mr. Mackenzie] Do you think the farmers would be taught ? —Yes. 196. And that the farmers' wives would take instruction ?—Yes. Hitherto we have been packing off heavily-salted butter, which, although of inferior make, will keep fairly good. A different class of teaching is required in the making of fresh butter for export and sale in the London market. 197. Have you thought of what class of expert we should get?—l would get a man as much as possible like the farmers themselves. Ido not want what you would call " a big man," but a man who will go round and explain the best method of butter-making to them. Ido not want a

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