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get known on the Home market, and be inquired for. He will thereby be always sure of getting a good price for his butter. It will not do for him to send two or three lots of a fine quality, and then an inferior parcel that will knock his brand down 20 per cent, at once in the eyes of the buyer. I would advise all storekeepers throughout the country to make this their most important item in the exportation of the butter. Again, they should never keep the butter hanging about their stores for the sake of making up a large parcel. If they have only five or ten kegs of butter it should be immediately shipped. I have had many a parcel of butter which has suited the buyer for quality and price, and he has turned round and said, "Is this to-day's butter? " I said, " No, sir." The Dutch butter-boat arrives in London on Mondays and Fridays. Suppose lam selling butter on the Monday, the buyer has asked me, "Is this to-day's butter? " I said, " No, sir, Friday's." He has immediately refused that butter, although it suited him in quality and price. This may sound very strange to you, gentlemen, but not to any one of experience in. the butter trade. The reason is, the buyer takes his butter home. It may be Wednesday or Thursday before he sells it to the retailer. The retailer puts it on his counter on the Friday and Saturday, and, being exposed to the gas and the bad air, that butter does not keep very well. If the retailer has one or two casks left on the Monday, when possible he will try to get that butter changed by the wholesale man for fresh-landed butter. It is just the two or three days that does the damage. Put that in comparison with the way the New Zealand storekeeper hangs on to his butter. He generally reckons that keeping the butter a month or six weeks makes no difference in its quality. You will see the necessity for the shipment of the butter as soon as it is made, where practicable or where possible. In my opinion, there is a large source of revenue or income from the butter trade. There is a large and profitable trade to be done. The whole of the butter-making and butter business is simply a matter of £s. d. 457. The Chairman.] To insure uniformity, do you not think that all the butter made by small farmers should be made on the separator system, under one management and only of one quality ? —No doubt the separator makes a uniform quality, but I have handled any quantity of farmers' butter and found it of uniform quality. The bulk of the Dutch butter is farmers' butter, and we get a general uniform quality from that country. 458. Mr. Mackenzie.] Do you consider the separator butter better than the ordinary farmers' butter for the market?—l have seen very fine separator butter, but I have also seen very fine farmers' butter. 459. We have been told that the separator butter turns out what is called " foussy " as compared with dairy butter, and that the parcels are larger—that a pound of separator butter is bulkier than a pound of farmers'butter?—I have no doubt it is "spongy," but I see no reason why one should not sell as well as the other. Ido not think that is an important item at all. 460. The Chairman.] Do you consider that totara timber affects the flavour of the butter ?— No, not where you have had clean water in it for some days, and getting the timber to soak up the water. 461. Have you had any experience of butter shipped in Pond's boxes? —I have seen it at Home; I have not bought any. I would not go to any extra expense. I would not give Is. a hundredweight more for Pond's boxes than for totara casks. 462. Have you had experience of butter shipped in the tawa casks ?—Not to my knowledge; I might have had.. 463. You know that tawa casks are very generally used ?—Yes ; but I cannot speak with any authority on them. My idea is that the timber question is not such an important item. 464. What do you consider the most desirable size for casks?— The size they now run, about 801b. to 831b. or 841b—that is, the gross weight. 465. What is the tare of casks for butter of New Zealand wood ?—From 131b. to 181b. I am speaking roughly. You should, as near as possible, get the kegs to weigh within an ounce of each other. 466. You have told us that freezing butter destroys its quality ?—Yes. It destroys its quality on exposure afterwards to the air. 467. Is that an experience gained from the Holland butter, or from the New Zealand butter ? —From both. 468. Does the cool-chamber butter turn out better than the freezing-chamber butter ?—Most decidedly the cool-chamber butter turns out better. That was my experience in regard to butterfreezing in the City of London. 469. Mr. Dodson.] I understood you to say that the cool-chamber butter was better ? Was it Dutch butter that was put into that chamber ?—lt was fresh-landed Dutch butter. 470. And you found that butter less injured than the freezing butter ?—Oh, yes; there was no comparison between the two. 471. The Chairman.] What percentage of salt do you think it advisable for farmers to use?— From 2f to 3 per cent.—that is, 31b. of salt to 1001b. weight of butter. 472. You say that the butter sold in the retailers' shops deteriorated very rapidly after being frozen : was that butter salted with this proportion of salt, or was it fresh ?—lt was salted to the extent of from 2 to 2-|- per cent. 473. Is that considered fresh butter ? —The sale of fresh butter pure and simple in London is small as compared with the sale of butter salted to that extent. 474. Is it the butter that ordinarily goes into consumption?— Yes ; you cannot entertain the idea of exporting fresh butter. 475. The deterioration of the butter commences directly after its exposure to the air ?—Yes. 476. Mr. Dodson.] You told us that some deterioration takes place in the cask, but nothing like what takes place after it leaves the cask ?—The time taken on the voyage puts the butter into a second-rate condition. 477. Mr. Mackenzie.] If a buyer goes into a London shop and wishes to buy butter, even before it is opened and exposed, the fact that it has been in the store for two or three days, has