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butter-test on all agricultural and pastoral associations. All fresh butter sent in to them should be in the hands of the secretary, and deposited in a suitable place at least ten days before, and salted butter two months before, the date of the shows. 595. The Chairman.] Do you know anything of the New Zealand timber of which the kegs for export butter should be made ?—Tawa and totara are both good; but they must be seasoned. 596. You do not know of any damage having been done to the butter through the kegs being made of tawa or totara ?—I have handled a good lot of butter in tawa and totara kegs, and I have not known of any injury done by them. 597. You have already mentioned the overchurning of butter; will you tell us more precisely what is the result of overchurning?—The result is that the butter and. the buttermilk become incorporated in the lump which is caused by overchurning, and the butter and buttermilk are so intermixed together that it is impossible to separate them. 598. Do you know anything about cheese ?—The great difficulty and loss in connection with cheese-making arises from the fact that the milk is sent hot to the factory. There is a clear loss of 10 per cent, in cheese-making for that reason. Cheese-making can be better done at home if people are educated up to it. Ten per cent, makes all the difference betw 7 een a paying and a losing concern.

Wednesday, 27th August, 1890. (Mr. Hamlin, Chairman.) Mr. J. Eandall Moegan re-examined. 599. The Chairman.] Will you as briefly as possible state what further information you have to give the Committee ?—I take it that the loss last season on the butter was mostly due to the want of space, and it is no surprise to me or any other man of experience that there was such a big loss, as the butter was killed before it left New Zealand through the delay. It is the custom for all the large Dutch, Danish, and French shippers to go to England once a year, for the purpose of keeping in touch with the English market, as there are many changes in the butter trade. I beg respectfully to advise this Committee that they should recommend the appointment of somebody to go Home and inquire into the trade every year, as it would be of great assistance to the storekeepers engaged in the butter-trade to have a man of experience to keep them in touch with the trade at Home. 600. Mr. Marchant.] Do you think the same trouble of want of space is likely to occur this season?— Not this season. I think it will take two or three seasons yet to work the shipping trade into the line best suited to the interests of the butter trade. 601. The Chairman.] I understood Mr. Marchant to ask you if there would be any difficulty about space ? —There will be plenty of space, but it will be on the mail-steamers and cargosteamers. By two steamers leaving in one week the butter will accumulate, and these cargosteamers will come along and take away the accumulation. What we want is a regular service instead of supplementary cargo-boats. One week there may be five thousand kegs go away, and the next week there will be ten thousand ; and it stands to reason that there must be a lot of stale butter shipped. We must get the butter away as soon after it is made as possible. 602. Mr. Walker.] If the butter were kept in a cool-chamber preparatory to shipment, would not that remove the difficulty ?—To a very large extent; but it is a matter of very great importance to get the butter shipped as soon as it is made. Mr. William E. Yoeke examined. Witness : I represent the firms of Boyd and Grant, of Liverpool, and T. L. Boyd and Co., of London, which firms have branches in Canada and in the States, and, I believe, are the largest dealers in provisions in the world. I came out here last September on a visit, to see if it were possible to do business in this colony with any chance of success. I visited Christchurch and Wellington, and made inquiries from various people —farmers, and others—as to the position of dairy affairs here. I returned Home in October, and, as the result of my report, I was sent out here in January last to commence business, shipping produce of all kinds Home, but especially butter and cheese. W T heu I got to Auckland I was informed that no space could be had for either butter or cheese on any of the steamers leaving New Zealand for England, as it had been taken up for six months by local people. I saw the representatives here of the New Zealand Shipping Company and of Shaw 7 -Savill and Co., and ascertained that freight-space on their steamers was unobtainable. I arrived at the conclusion that the only course open to me was either to abandon altogether the prospect of doing business in New Zealand or to try to influence the boards of both companies in London to grant us the necessary space. I returned Home on the 3rd April last, and reported the state of affairs to my principals, who instructed me to see the managers of both companies in Loudon, and. discuss the probability of space-room with them. I saw the managing director of Shaw-Savill and Co. and tho New Zealand Shipping Company in London, and described to them the position of affairs here in regard to the want of space. They both admitted that they knew that this grievance did exist. I was requested by both companies to make them an offer in writing for the space for a certain length of time—to pay for space in cool-chambers, w 7 hether we filled up that space or not. Accordingly my firm made an offer to these two companies to take 15 tons of space on each of their steamers leaving the colony for twelve months, with the option of 10 tons of additional space if required. Shaw-Savill and Co. accepted our offer, with slight modifications, but the New Zealand Shipping Company could do nothing for us. Onali hands it has been stated to me in the colony, by farmers and others, that one of the greatest bugbears they have to contend with here is the want of proper means of getting stuff Home in fair condition; but, in my opinion, the difficulty now is practically at an end, because Shaw-Savill and Co. assured me that they would be running more steamers —that from the Ist January next