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supposed to be better than the butter made on the old system. You can get more money at Home for butter made by the separator. You take away 7 the cream from the milk while the milk is perfectly fresh. There arc several reasons why the butter ought to be better and why it is better. 637. Mr. Marchant.] Do you attach great importance to working all the water possible out of the butter?— Most decidedly. 638. Do you think that leaving any considerable proportion of water in the butter would be an active agent in causing rapid decay?— Yes, that is a recognised fact. 639. In order to make the butter keep well it should be worked as dry as possible ?—Yes, most decidedly; one of the secrets of making butter so as to keep is to get all the water and the milk out of it. If you work butter too much you break the globules of fat, and the butter becomes rancid directly. 640. Mr. Dodson.] What proportion of salt would you use ?—From 3 to 4 per cent, of salt would be ample for tho English market. The taste for salt butter at Home is dying out. With regard to cheese, I consider some of the New Zealand make very fine, and some of it quite equal to the production of Cheshire and Somersetshire. Ido not think that the farmers in New Zealand have anything to learn in respect to cheese, but I would advise them not to make such large cheeses as they do, nor to make small ones. A cheese of from 501b. to 601b. suits the English market better than the small ones of 301b. to 401b., or the large ones of 701b. to 801b. I fail to understand why so many high-coloured cheeses are made in New Zealand, as the English public do not require them. They always prefer the whits cheese, except in the case of Gloucesters. The cheese industry in New 7 Zealand ought to become a very extensive one, as it enters into competition not with American or Canadian cheese, but with the make of English dairy-factories. I think it is a mistake making a poor class of cheese here as it only enters into competition at Home with the lower classes of American and Canadian cheese. We had a shipment of New Zealand cheeses landed in June. They were examined by various experts and pronounced to be very fine. I believe they were sold in North Wales, in competition with the production of Shropshire. They do not want to be taught anything in New Zealand in regard to the making of cheese ; they have nothing to learn. 641. Mr. Marchant.] Skim-milk cheese would be altogether condemned?—-Most decidedly. 642. Mr. Mackenzie.] Does the idea as to the size of the cheese vary in different parts of England ?—My experience is that all retailers like cheese of from 501b. to 601b. They do not like the small ones, because they dry so rapidly, and the large ones are unwieldy for them. The grocer always puts his cheese on the counter. If he has to handle an 801b. cheese there is a lot of waste and shrinking, and he is at a loss, more or less. 643. Do you not think the dairy-factory people here require to learn a good deal about the manufacture of cheese before they can compete with the American dairy-factories ?—I do not think so at all. I do not say that New Zealand cheese can be put on the same level with American or Canadian. It is a distinct commodity altogether, with a distinct flavour. You might quite easily sell a fine New Zealand cheese for a west of England cheese or a Cheshire cheese; but you could never make such a mistake with Canadian. The flavour of American and Canadian cheese is quite distinct. 644. Is the get-up of the American cheese not more regular?— Certainly it is. There are certain cheese-factories in Canada and in the States whose products are sold regularly by the brand of the lot. We sell repeatedly large shipments of cheese from certain factories in the States long before the cheese is made. We sell certain brands. Witness : I beg further to add, for the information of the Committee, that the Danish Government have also a Commissioner in England, whose duty it is to w 7 atch the interest of the Danish dairy-farmer, and to promote the sale of Danish produce. I hand in an English trade journal, which gives an account of a prosecution instituted by this gentleman. Mr. A. J. McGeegoe, M.H.E., re-examined. Witness : In addition to the evidence I have already given, I wish to put in a letter received from the Chairman of the Akaroa County Council, who, on his way to England, took special trouble to look into this question of the shipment of cheese. This gentleman, I may mention, has been on Banks Peninsula for the last thirty years. He is a large owner of stock, and has for many years been a maker of cheese. He knows the subject thoroughly, and takes a large interest in the matter. From his position and experience, no man knows more on the subject than the writer of this letter :—■ I'Extract from Akaroa Mail of 22nd August, 1890.] << Sic, — " Kirn, Argyleshire, Scotland, 7th July, 1890. " I arrived in London on the 24th June, after a fair average passage. On board the fine ship ' Tongariro' we had a good quantity of New Zealand cheese shipped as cargo, Mr. Hislop, of Christchurch, being the largest shipper. He asked me, if at any time the hatches were off, if I would kindly give the cheese a look. I was glad of the opportunity, and, with the kind permission of the captain and officers, I had free access to examine the cheese at every opportunity, which I did ; and, as the few remarks I have to make may be of some use to many of our farmers on the Peninsula, I shall endeavour to give a detailed account of the condition in which the cheese landed. My first examination took place the second week out. The cheese were under the main hatch in the forward part of the ship, and in the coolest place on board. The cheese was in first-class order, with the exception of one lot, which had evidently come from the Peninsula. The ends of the cases were made of fin. totara boards ; the sides were palings split out of green ribbon-wood ; no supports in the centre of the cases. The cases were not made to fit the cheese, and they were all mouldy from the green timber. The cases were so slim that the rolling of the ship had caused the cheese to burst many of them. Lots of the cheeses were cut with the edge of the palings. These cases