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1087. Before 1873 what was the condition of the.place? —We had cultivations there. Europeans had been residing before then on that piece of land. There was a Wesleyan minister residing on it before that. 1088. Was it laid down in grass?— Yes. 1089. How many acres? —I am not able to state that, for Ido not know what the extent of an acre is. 1090. Was there a half or more than a half ? —There was a considerable amount sown in grass, but I cannot say whether it was more than half. 1091. What improvement was made between the date of the grant and the lease of 1873?— The European had ploughed patches here and there on it. 1092. Was there any house?— Yes; he erected a house on it. 1093. Any fencing ? —A portion of it had been fenced in ; a portion has not been fenced. I could not say how many acres, but some small portions had been improved here and there. 1094. What had been done ?—Ploughing, sowing. A portion was ploughed and laid down in grass prior to that. 1095. Any buildings erected up to that time? —No ; there was no house built since 1873. 1096. Any fencing done since 1873 ? —There has been some wire-fencing erected. 1097. When was that done ?—Last year. 1098. About how much ?—I think it might be a mile long or more. 1099. Did you attend the arbitration sitting in Waitotara? —Yes. 1100. What did you do there? —I objected to the arbitration. 1101. Did you give evidence ?—Yes. 1102. To what effect ?—-The main objection I made was to the extension of the lease to thirty years. 1103. Did you give any evidence as to value ?—Yes.. 1104. Were you asked as to the value of the land itself, or as to the renting-value of the land? —I was cross-questioned by the lessee of the land as to its value. The lessee told the arbitrators it would fetch £8, some of it £6, and some other parts £4, an acre. 1105. Were you asked any question as to what would be a fair rent ?—No. 1106. Do you know of any sales of property near the reserves by Europeans to the Europeans ? —Yes. 1107. Can you give any particulars?— Yes; I can tell you what amount is received for the land. I can inform you of a piece of land alongside my own that was sold. 1108. How much did it fetch ?—£ll an acre. 1109. When was that ?—I almost forget ; I think it was in 1887 or 1888, or it might be prior to that. I did not make any note of the date it was sold, but all we knew was that it was sold at that price. 1110. Who was it sold to ?—lt was sold to Wilkie. 1111. Is that the pakeha who leases the reserve ?—Yes. 1112. Which do you mean —that it was sold to Durie or by Durie ? —lt was sold by Durie to another party. 1113. Who was it sold to? —To J. B. Wilkie. There were two parties : the other person was named Wilson. They were brothers-in-law. 1114. Are there any buildings on this land sold by Durie to Wilkie ? —There was no dwelling, but there was a wool-shed. 1115. W T as it a large wool-shed ?—No; it was not very large. 1116. How many acres ?—One hundred acres, more or less. 1117. Were there any other improvements on it beside?— Yes; there were some other improvements on it. 1118. What improvements ?—lt was ploughed and laid down in grass. 1119. Was it fenced ? —Yes; a portion. It was bounded by two rivers ; that is the way it was fenced on two sides. 1120. Do you know of any land leased by Europeans to Europeans adjacent ?—Yes. 1121. Will you give particulars?—Durie is leasing a piece of land from another party, but I do not know the other party's name. He is a European; he was a friend of the arbitrators. I only heard this from Europeans. 1122. Do you know what rent Durie pays for it?— Yes. 1123. How much? —I do not know whether it is 75., or 7s. 3d., or 7s. 6d. 1124. Do you know that Durie leased at that ?—I do not know what year he took over this lease. 1125. Mr. Bell] What European told you: you say you only know some Europeans?— Thomas Fisher ; but I heard it from other Europeans as w 7 ell. I made inquiries of Europeans about Waitotara. 1126. Does this land adjoin the reserve ?—Yes. 1127. Mr. Parata.] Were the regulations translated in Maori? Did you receive any Acts referring to the regulations ?—Yes. 1128. Were they translated into Maori ?—Yes. 1129. Did you see those Acts?— Yes. 1130. I suppose it was Mr. Rennell, or some other person in the Public Trust Office, that sent them to you?— Yes ; I received one from him. 1131. Did you understand what the arbitrators were to carry out ? —Yes; I went there, and made my objections to carrying it out in that form. 1132. What part of the Act did you object to? —I did not look at all the clauses in the Act; but I looked specially at clause 16, and I approved of that clause.