1.—12

48

1207. Do you remember the first payment of rents made, and my offering you your share ?— Yes, I recollect it; but I told you it would be better to wait awhile. 1208. Did you not say that you were afraid of the other Natives if you took it ?—The whole of them made the same objection ; they were afraid, such a number of people being present. 1209. Did you not come up to New Plymouth after me and take it when I was there? —Yes; I was there. 1210. Hon. Captain Kenny.] You have referred several times to the fact that there is not sufficient land for your tribe or hapu, and it has been incidentally mentioned that there is a piece of 700 acres reserved for you. What is the number of women and children belonging to your hapu ?—I could not tell you what number there is. 1211. Approximately?—l think there might be about two hundred. 1212. Mr. Mackay.] There are seventy-nine ?—You are going by the grants. Hon. Captain Kenny : I want to know how many women and children are living on this land. He said there were about two hundred men, women, and children. 1213. Mr. Bennett.] There are about thirty. Is that so?— There are about thirty permanently there, but a lot- of them are scattered about various parts of the country. Hon. Captain Kenny : What I want to know is, how many people have a claim to be supported on this land. Mr. Bennett : It is difficult to say, because there are so many other grants they are interested in that it would be a difficult thing to determine their actual position. 1214. Mr. Peacock.] Let us ask him the question. Are there any of them interested in other lands besides this ? —I do not know whether they have interests in other lands; I only know with regard to myself. 1215. Hon. Captain Kenny.] Reference has been made to Major Kemp. Ido not understand the witness's answer as to whether there is any truth in the statement that the Natives themselves requested the Government to appoint an English arbitrator. Do you admit that statement? Mr. Hamlin (Interpreter) : I understood him to say so. 1216. Mr. Bennett.] Are you interested in 300 acres in a place called Te Roti ?—No; I have no interest in that piece of land. 1217. Hon. Randall Johnson.] What interests have you besides your interest in this 700 acres —I mean you personally—you answer for yourself ? —The only land I own besides this is in the hands of the Public Trustee. 1218. Will you name what blocks you are interested in?—l have an interest in other land, but my name is not inserted in the grants. 1219. Mr. Peacock.] If such is the case, do you get any of the money divided in these other blocks ? —No; I do not receive any. 1219 a. Do you claim any ? —I do not know whether I should receive any, as my name is not inserted in the grants. 1220. Hon. the Chairman.] Do you, in fact, receive any ? —No; I do not receive any rent outside this piece. 1221. Mr. Peacock.] lam informed there are 2,100 acres in the whole block; that you received 700 for your share; that the remaining 1,400 acres are for the tribe : do you receive the rent for that 1,400 acres? —I have received £2, £3, or £4 as rent. 1222. Do you take into account your revenue from the land leased ?—Do you think I can live on land when I only receive £2, £3, or £4 in rent? 1223. Have you received the full amounts of your rent ? —I am sure Ido not know what my shares are in this land that I should say what amount I receive from them. 1224. Mr. Parata.] How much do you get a year for your share of this 1,400 acres ? —On one occasion, after it ran for four years, I received £10. On one occasion I received £4 per annum. 1225. Do you think that is the right amount you should receive ?—No. 1226. Hon. Captain Kenny.] If the whole of this block were in possession of your people, would it be sufficient for the support of your hapus ?—I think it would be enough for our support. 1227. If you got it back, would you cultivate it yourselves ? —We would be able to manage it : running cattle on some portions, and. cultivating others. 1228. Mr. Peacock.] Is the 1,400 acres bush-land?— The greater part of it is forest. 1229. Were the 700 acres you got as a reserve open land ?—There was a portion of it forest. 1230. It would not require very much to put it in a condition to yield revenue ?—A portion of the 700 acres was in very good condition many years ago. Kaeoeo, of Hawera, in attendance and examined. 1231. Mr. Sinclair.] What hapus do you belong to?—Ngatitanewai, Hamua, and Hapotiki. 1232. Have you any interest further north ? —Yes ; at Ngatimahuro. 1233. What portion of those hapu lands you have mentioned has been leased by the Natives themselves : have you leased any ?—Yes. 1234. At Hamua?—Yes. 1235. Much or little ?—A large piece of it. 1236. Who is it leased to?—To Mr. Wilson. 1237. What state was the land in when it was leased to Wilson?—lt was in its native state. 1238. Was there any grass on it ?—Yes. 1239. Any fences ?—Yes. 1240. Was there much or little grass? —There was a good deal of grass on it. 1241. Was it rough fern or grass ?—There was a little fern amongst it. 1242. Did Wilson make any improvements after getting possession of the land?— Yes. 1243. Since 1884, has much improvement been made on the land ?—Yes.