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1851. Are they many or few ? —The whole tribe are suffering for the want of land, because some of the land had been leased by Mr. Mackay. 1852. If you had sufficient land to live on, would you and your people continue to live at Parihaka ?—lf we had plenty of land to live on we would go back and live on it. It is because we have no land that we go to reside at Parihaka. 1853. Are you able to live well at Parihaka, or are you in distress?—l have not been to Parihaka myself. 1854. Which would the people prefer to do—to live on their land or to live at Parihaka ?—lt does not matter whether we reside on our own land or at Parihaka. 1855. What is the wish of the people in regard to the management of their land: do you wish to control the management yourselves?— Yes. 1856. In all cases where there are more than twenty persons in the grant, what would you suggest ? —My idea is that, if there are twenty in the grant, if there would be any mismanagement of affairs, they could refer it to a committee. 1857. Is that in accordance with the ancient custom of management for lands ? —That is a different thing altogether; things are not conducted now as they were in olden times. 1858. Have you any further grievance against the Public Trustee than the fact of the rents being reduced without authority ? —That is one grievance we have : another is the reduction of the rent on 5 acres—the rent being reduced to Is. 2d. for each man. 1859. What do you get as your share of the rent? —On one occasion I got £1 Is., on another occasion I got 15s. 1860. How many acres?— Ninety acres. 1861. Are you in that 90 acres alone, or with others ?—Yes; there are others in it with me. 1862. How many others ?—Another one and myself. 1863. What is the total rent of the 90 acres?—£2 2s. a year; that is half a year that I speak of. 1864. Mr. Bell] Where is this ?—I think it is in No. 3 Block. 1865. Mr. Sinclair.] Or No. 2 Block, which ?—Mr. Rennell will know. 1866. What is the name of the whole block ? —Puniha is tho name of the centre of the block : Hangatahua on one side, and Waiwherenui on the other side. 1867. Was that under the original rent or under the reduced rental ?—On some occasions some people received as little as 3d. for their share. 1868. Do you know that for a fact ?—I saw Mr. Rennell myself pay that money. 1869. If your people had the management of these lands, do you think they could lease them for abetter rent ?—I could not say so much about that; it will be a matter for arrangement. 1870. Do you think you could make better arrangements than have been made ?—I think a committee could do so. 1871. At the time the land was leased, could your people have leased it to better advantage than the Reserves Trustee leased it ?—That rests with vs —with the Native committee. 1872. Mr. Mackay.] Were you present when I held the meeting of the Natives of Stoney River about the leasing of their lands?—No ; I was not present. 1873. Do you know who were present ?—Yes; Hoani Wharekawa was one, Minarapa te Mautaranui was another, Komene Tupaki was another, Taihaere was another, Hauate Paora was another, Ruakere Moeahu was another. 1874. That is six : was Porikapa there ? —Yes ; he was also there : that was the seventh. 1875. Where were you on the days they met at Stoney River? —I was at Te Puniho. 1876. Is not Matane te Hunehu within the Stoney River Block ?—lt is the centre of the Stoney River Block. 1877. Why did you not attend ? —I did not care about having the land subdivided; nor did I care about having it leased. 1878. How do you know that these persons you have named met me ?—I heard it by information I received : I was told of it at Te Puniho. 1879. Are not these persons you have mentioned the principal chiefs of the Stoney River Block?— Yes ; that is quite true. 1880. In the block in which your name is, do you know how many acres there are in it ?—Yes ; I think there are about 4,000. 1881. There are 4,473 acres : how many grantees are in the Crown grant ?—Forty-five. 1882. Do you know how many acres have been leased : was it 4,373 acres? —The particulars I am not able to state because there yvere so many pieces of land marked out for leasing. 1883. Would you be surprised to hear that out of 4,473 acres only 765 acres have been leased ? —I am sure I cannot say how many acres you have leased. 1884. Are you aware that those chiefs whose names are in the grant agreed that there should be 1,068 acres leased?—l never heard them say that they had agreed to let that quantity of land. 1885. Are you not aware that they agreed on that ?—I have already stated that I believed they did agree to lease that quantity—these seven people did so themselves. 1886. That leaves 3,415 acres in the hands of the Native owners : are you aware that they have this 3,415 acres to make use of if they please ?—The greater part of it is bush : it would not give any crops. 1887. Now, are there not 803 acres of that some of the best land in the block, being nearest the sea ? Then there are 456 acres ? —That 456 acres is in bush. 1888. But the 803 acres are flat land—open land—the best land in the block : is that not so ? —I believe there would be only 10 acres for each grantee. 1889. How many of the forty-five grantees are dead?— There are four of them dead. 1890. How many children are there among those forty-five grantees?—l could not tell you.